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Red Hill update for 31 Jul


Chester Copperpot's picture

By Chester Copperpot - Posted on 31 July 2009

Area: 
Red Hill
Status: 
Amber/Some Issues

Not much has changed from the previous entries. Still extremely wet on the main trails and plenty of sandy bogs from the motos. I would say the main link trails are borderline red / yellow, there is n

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christine's picture

did you also see the signs from the Land dept saying that its crown land and so the trail bikes aren't allowed to be on there - not that they are paying any attention...there were a few there today, but who is going to police it anyway?

Aside from which I feel really sorry for them - they have no where at all to ride except Red Hill, and, as a horse rider up there I have to say, as a general rule, I find the trail bike riders FAR more polite and considerate than the mountain bike riders are.

And, as I was riding my horse up there just now, it dawned on me (being a tad slow at times) that mtb riders actually have access to more trails than any horse or trail bike riders do...and yes, the mtb riders also cause erosion at some sections of Red Hill, it isn't just down to the others, its a fact that some people insist on riding when tracks are too wet - thats life hey!

Rob's picture

Blondie, for someone who says they don't like serious stuff you certainly seem keen to perpetuate these conversations.

I bring your attention a summary page of the the IMBA science and research section:

http://www.imba.com/resources/science/impact_sum...

Wilson and Seney found no statistically significant difference between measured bicycling and hiking effects. They did find that horses caused the most erosion of the trails, and that motorcycles traveling up wetted trails caused significant impact.

Dicko's picture

Dr C - cant say I have been up to this eastern area that you're talking about - but interested in the potential you speak of.

What TLC is required ? Have we got enough of our group (MTB riders in general) that is actually willing to put in the time to develop some sustainable trails up there ? Not that it should matter too much - but it anybody (land managers) going to object if we put some effort in maintaining an area for our sport. Red Hill sounds like a perfect place that some organise effort would provide some great rewards for all.

Just got back from Ourimbah - and that place is proof of what can be built and maintained sustainably in a relatively small area.

Dicko

Chester Copperpot's picture

Christine,

Did you see the half metre deep "cuts" into the sand and mud on basically every corner up there? You get a horse leg or a bike wheel in there and it's not going to be pretty. No mountain bike could do that even over a prolonged amount of time with extremely heavy traffic. You need one single trail bike with full throttle to sit and wreck it for everyone. They'll dry over and be permanent unless someone takes the time to fill them in, and they'll still not be perfect as the water issue up there turns them into following streams.

See the sandy bogs on practically every corner up and down the hill? If I'm not mistaken that's the same typical sandy base as Manly Dam in some places, though it's not boggy at all. Again, it's pretty hard to cause that damage with mountain bikes, we can't create that much torque to rip up the solid top layer and open up the sand under it. Once that happens, we lose that natural drainage. It's not a big deal for horse riders but certainly stops mountain bike riders dead.

@Dicko - My directions weren't great. On our interactive map it is the south part and runs all the way down to the housing line with loops running north. There are trails running all the way down and sniggle all downhill depending on the trail choice and speed. I probably only discovered 75% of what was there. This stuff is very old and would have been epic at one point. There were a couple of north shore bridges and some roll-offs still safe but the rest has rotted out. There are some 10ft+ gaps in there and most had A/B lines with some pretty tricky B lines. Only small amounts of pines and fern areas but just up from the housing line at the bottom made for some great steep tactical riding - "ride don't slide" scenario. Glass shatterings have been dropped in 1 place down the bottom so back when these trails were used there may have been some unhappy locals however these trails didn't come very close to any of the houses and only 1 I found came out at the back of an emergency services building ( 33°44'42.07"S - 151°15'52.01"E).

It could be a perfect solution for the Manly Dam issues if done right and legal. Probably never on par with Ourimbah but it's not like we have many options.

mikethebike's picture

Dr Colossus

I think the area you're talking about was known as Grizzlys. Entry from Lady Penrhyn Dv, down dirt drive and enter on right at the first left hander. This was one of the first north shore type tracks in the area. Was virtually closed after the land owner at the bottom near Bolta Pl fenced off the best exit, which is where you parked the shuttle bus. Was totally awesome back then and got plenty of use, which is why it got fenced off. Funny how things work....

georgesadlik's picture

I agree with Rob and others comments re the Horses and Moto's. Red Hill is a fine example of how motos wreck trails. Then head over to Perimetre at Terry Hills to see the damage the horses are doing to that track. The irony is that the MTBikers stay off these tracks in the wet, but the others don't seem to give a brass razoo.
Peeps should practice what they preach.

Cheers

George.

christine's picture

i have been off line and lucky really!
As for THAT comment about the Perimeter Trail - as has been mentioned countless times and so is quite boring to repeat - horses have been riding up there for longer than bike riders and I would be most interested to see the 'damage' they have caused on a freakin fire trail...I am sure it's hard to navigate the odd dropping on a freakin mtb bike isn't it?!
i wasn't getting into a 'everyones excetp mtb damages the bush' chat at all, I was simply saying I feel sorry for the trail bike riders as they only have the one place on the Northern Beaches to ride - which has now been taken away from them (not that they are paying any attention to that)
Rob, I doubt very much that ONE horse (as in the 8 years I have lived here I seem to be the only one) causes a great deal of damage up there...In fact, in studies in England walkers ARE the most destructive users as they tend to pick plants, leave rubbish and go off tracks to 'explore'
As for the north shore at the beginning you guys were talking about - was that the one that went onto the land where the man ran around with a machete to stop bike riders? that was so funny!

georgesadlik's picture

Hey Christine, maybe you should take a wander up to Terry Hills and have a look for yourself before firing from the hip in some emotional backlash. One horse, Two horses who cares? Put a 400kg point load on a 100mm diametre hoof in soft wet soil and there's your problem right there. It doesn't matter because every group knows best and as such can't be told.

I don't care who uses the fire trails, we all have a right to be there. It's just poor form to assume that it's the bikes that are doing most of the damage.

Cheers

George.

christine's picture

I have been riding horses up there since I was about 14 and still do so I don't need to! (i do also ride my mountain bike up there as well...)

Aside from which as we all know they are legal trails which are maintained - they have been graded so many times for us to use - I am really over the horse damage/droppings conversation...

As i said and say yet again, my original comments to do with Red Hill (not Terrey Hills) was that i feel sorry for the trail bike riders - which i still do.

Yes, they are noisy and messy but they have a valid sport too...Thankfully I now have time for a quick ride on my horse to cause massive destruction at Red Hill now... Smiling

geoz's picture

agree with christine. red hills is the only area close where you can ride dirt bike, for anything else you drive 1.5-2 hours to the blue mountains or the watagans. if i still had one i'd still be riding there as well.

having said that i wish they'd stay off the down hill tracks, that is not much fun & almost useless on a dirt bike. as long as they climb up & down the rocks damage should not be too bad.

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