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help! hill climb


kevin's picture

By kevin - Posted on 20 January 2007

I am having problems with inclines. Whenever I attempt a hill climb I get underway then very quickly seem to lose traction resulting in my back wheel spinning, losing my balance and a long walk to the crest. This always seems to happen on heart break hill at Manly damn.
I am riding a Giant Reign 2. My tire pressures are approximately 36-40psi and I have tried it with my front suspension locked or open.
Any ideas or technique suggestions would be greatly appreciated.

Matt's picture

It's a tough hill that one, even experienced climbers have to concentrate there. There's a few things that will make climbing easier though:

- Gear selection: don't give yourself too low a gear, try and stay in the middle ring as opposed to the granny. If you're in too low a gear then your pedalling action won't be smooth and you can spin the back wheel. Also I've seen a lot of people change down to a tiny gear before they're even on the hill, try not to do that, keep going in a bigger gear and change down if you need to later, keeping your momentum up at the start of the climb.

- Weight: try and stay in the saddle and keep your weight over the back wheel, bum just on the front of the saddle, arms bent. That way there's less chance of the rear wheel unweighting. if your weight seems too far back bend your arms some more first.

- Don't let a little spin put you off, as long as you're in the right gear you'll probably be able to keep going, look up at the top and tell yourself it's not that far away!

- Line: keep an eye out for little rocks or steps and sandy sections and try and avoid them, look for the line you want to take early and keep looking at it and hey presto you'll get there!

Practice makes perfect, nobody likes hills like that to start with but the more you give it a go the easier and less painful it gets.

Here endeth the lesson for today :@) As ever it's do as I say not as I do...

Ta,
Matt.

evan's picture

In all seriousness Matt is good one to listen to for technique tips.
Matt great tips on hill climbs.

Evan

Caro's picture

Hey Matt,

nice 'hill climbing lesson' Smiling. Now I finally know why I am struggeling (and it is not the bike's or the hill's fault! shame really!)
See you on the hill Evan! Have you become friends yet??Smiling

Cheers
Caro

Rob's picture

I have to disagree with Matt on this one. True, on technical climbs, like Heartbreak hill used to be, using granny (small ring at front) wasn't a good plan. This was because you needed power to get over the rock sections and it's just too hard to apply lots of torque in a really low gear.

However, on anything that's not got such technicalities (like it is now, like most of Cascades, the small pinches at Terrey Hills - in fact, just about any fire trail round here now they've bulldozed 'em) I reckon granny is better every time. Sure, if it was sealed road and you have lock out then go for it and climb like a roadie... but we're not roadies, are we? Eye-wink

That's because on the middle ring, to apply enough torque to keep moving on steep stuff, unless you have legs of steel most of us have to stand up, and standing up moves weight from the rear wheel and causes it to loose grip and slip and then you're in trouble. As for changing to granny before the hill is reached - yes, do it, because changing gear under heavy load (erm... like on a steep hill) is a bad idea, and perhaps like me, you have a dodgy drive train that doesn't like to go from middle to granny under any load.

Right, that said, suppose rest of what he says is OK Sticking out tongue

'Cos you are probably going to slip a little whatever gear, and this is were balance and line choice will help. You have to be able to ride slow enough, and sometime almost be at a standstill on the hills, but still not have to dab or stop (but don't! If you stop completely it is very hard to get going again in most places).

Ah - and remember to sprint up the water bars. Momentum is your friend here, pedal like crazy as you get to water bars and the grade increases. This should give you momentum to get to the top where you can rest and resume a steady grind ready for the next one.

And as for practice, I've seen guys riding up and down Heartbreak Hill endlessly (no, I'm not joking) - so if you don't make it on the first go, get back down and try again!

Bernd's picture

Yes, Granny is good, because not everyone has legs like Tree stumps!!!
But going up and down Heartbreak hill..... I don't know about that, maybe tomorrow morning, no one will watch us @ 6-30am!!!!
Bernd

Bruce's picture

I agree with both Matt & Rob in part, for me I find that selecting the granny ring at the start of the hill, keep your wait on the front of the seat, lean foward & let the hill come to you, dont attack the hill too hard or you will tire to early, but most of all go at your own pace.

Stuart M's picture

I should know. Fitness, fitness, fitness and a combination of all of the above comments depending on the hill.

shano's picture

So your climbing up a hill in granny...your heart is pounding your legs are groaning...

Keep your head up and breathe....simple but it keeps you looking where you want to go!

Matt's picture

...isn't just my opinion, ask the pro's, and I'm sure Celia would back me up on this? At the Rob Eva and Paul Rowney MTB skills course their opinion was there's nothing steep enough in Sydney for the granny ring, definitely not "heartbreak". Look at a pro XC riders bike and more than likely there'll be no granny ring! The only way you get legs that can push that is by pushing those big gears in the first place and if you resort to granny that's never going to happen.

Anyway it's just a bit of fun so up to you what you feel comfortable with, see you at the top :@)

Little-Ditty's picture

Matt, you're coming at it from a good rider's perspective who has good inbuilt stamina, strong (i.e. conditioned) legs, fitness, correct technique, etc, etc. Although I think you do understand what he means. Smiling For a more inexperienced rider, I can completely understand where this topic comes from, as I NEVER rode up Heartbreak Hill in it's old rocky state. Poor me!! Sad

It has only been while Heartbreak Hill is in it's current, graded state, that I can make it up without stopping. Feels a bit like second best, actually. But here is what I have learned and can report about hill climbs on well prepared trails (i.e. this is what works for me - obviously others do things differently):

- Granny gear works for me as the track surface is nice and flat and hard, like a sealed road. You get good grip. Keep on the flatest, hardest surface and you will lose less pedal power.

- Don't approach and enter the hill too fast. Don't waste energy. Slow down and let the gearing do all the work.

- Suck in a series of very deep breaths (10?) as you are approaching the hill, say, within about 100m. I think free-divers call this cramming? It will give you a good oxygen shot into your muscles and gets rid of some superficial fatigue.

- Knowing that you are appproaching the hill? Do yourself a favour - stop and raise your seat as high as it goes!!

- When I am struggling to push up Heartbreak Hill (there are 3 waterbars - of which no.2 is the steepest - and I think, the hardest part of the whole Hill), I sometimes stand up in the pedals (despite the lack of weight over the rear wheels). Why? Because you are lengthening out your legs, removing them from the hunched position that sitting in the saddle naturally puts them in. You are therefore putting your legs where maximum leverage is being achieved, plus you are squashing down on the pedals with your maximum body weight. Are you are heavy guy? That would help here!! Laughing out loud Once I get over a waterbar, I sit back down again.

- As you get over each waterbar, slow down, cruise, and suck down a few massive breaths. This, again, will send an oxygen shot through your system. I find it helps - even if it is only psycological! Smiling

- If you feel really exhausted, try sitting in the saddle, and straightening your back. It is funny, but like standing in the pedals, this also "lengthens" out your lower body and provides more leverage (i.e. power) to your legs and pedals. It also lets you breathe easier.

- If you really get caught, and feel you are just about to pack it in up the hill, I also have found that "bouncing" about 2cm out of the saddle with each pedal stroke works. I think it also somehow provides you with more leverage and power. If I resort to this, I know I am in trouble. Laughing out loud

Hope this helps!! Laughing out loud I will also see you at the top.

Cheers.

Alex's picture

and if ur really crap like me, when all else fails, and it gets too steep, ride at diagonals angles up the hill so its alot less steep...u look like a bit of a prat, but whatever hehe..
i love my granny gear, for the record Eye-wink

sunny's picture

Does anyone have a photo of this said hill...?

Rob's picture

Heatbreak Hill used to look like this (click for larger):

Heartbreak Hill

Now it's graded with 2-3 steep water bars along the way. No rock steps to challenge you on the way.

Maybe I should take some new pics today? Manly Dam has changed a bit since the first lot.

Matt's picture

The one thing I have to say (contrary to some of the posts above, and I will shut up after this Eye-wink) is if you want to make any hill half as hard don't change down to a tiny gear on the flat before you've reached the hill. On the contrary speed up at the bottom if you can (having properly spotted your line) and take some speed and momentum into the hill and you'll get to the top having expended much less energy, keep pushing as big a gear as you can for practice's sake and every time you get to the hill you'll find it's a little bit easier each time.

If you look after your drivetrain (proper lube, cleaning, adjustment and timely parts replacement) then even when you're pushing up a big hill a (timely) change of gear shouldn't effect your effort/rhythm significantly.

Just try it, in whatever gear is right for you, if you're not a fan of the middle ring then use the granny but with a bigger (less teeth) gear at the back, and you'll find yourself cruising up the hills in half the time and enjoying it rather than grinding away in a tiny gear just happy to get there.

I will say no more on hills except the proof is in the pudding!

Ta,
Matt.

pikey's picture

Walk!

No Shame in that!

100 km raced I have and ill tell you if you can walk as fast as the people riding beside you, save your energy and walk.

So there ;-*

Greg

kevin's picture

Thanks for all the tips.. Staying seated really helped and I think I’ll stick with the granny gear until my fitness improves.

Little-Ditty's picture

I was at Manly Dam on Sunday, and found the grip level on the Hill to be the best I have ever seen it. It is pretty hard packed now. I powered up that hill quick smart.

As they say, there is no shame in the granny gear. But, practice makes perfect.

Rob's picture

Yeah, as LD says, HH is almost as solid as a sealed road, it now looks like this (taken Sun 21st):

Heartbreak Hill

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