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Cycling Specific Physio?
Hi - I am looking to see a reputable physio (potentially a knee specialist) in Sydney. Ideally Eastern 'burbs, but happy to travel.
I DONT want someone who wants to see my bike, play with my cleats, shoes etc. I dont agree with this approach....
Anyone had any good experiences?
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He is a great Physio, and an elite rider.
http://www.thebodymechanic.com.au/
0406 661 760
with anyone who didn't want to see me on the bike at some stage.
The guy I used for lower back and knee issues got me very closed to sorted out before we got to the final half-percent with bike fit. And then it was only a slight (2 degree) twist of the saddle to the right, and move the seat forward 3-5mm.
He evaluated a lot more that was wrong about my posture and how I moved by watching me walk, bend over, twist etc etc. Gave me some exercises and manipulations to straighten me out, as much by training my brain to fire the muscles in the correct sequence as anything. And it worked very well indeed, although it was a work in progress for several months. I was - as he put it - "complex".
But since you don't want any of that stuff, there's no point in giving you his name. The fact he is well known and regarded by bike fit gurus, is a cyclist himself, and has had AIS level and other pro athletes some see him probably doesn't count, since he'll want to see you on the bike at some stage.
Trish Wisby-Roth was physio to the Australian Olympic Cycling Team.
See http://www.takecontrol.com.au but it does not mention her background.
She was extremely useful for me - lower back due to cycling.
I learned the hard way that bike setup is crucial to avoiding injury !!
thanks everyone - I did have Blair on the list and contacted him, but he was needing to see my bike etc.
I am so unconvinced by this approach. Which bike? I ride three. Which shoes, I also have about three pairs? Road bike - tends to be a longer time in the saddle, or MTB - tend to be a lower cadence and therefore greater load on the knees....
I would tend to assume that the problem should be diagnosed...ie. tight IT band caused by rolling in of foot, due to high arches, or wide pedal stance, AND THEN address the bike....
I'll give Ruth a go, and see what she thinks...
I'm a nightmare patient!
OK, I see where you're coming from. And your expectaton is in fact the way Martin worked with me. I was just being mean - the current BS with Waringah Council is making me grumpy.
Details: Martin Krause of Back in Business Physiotherapy at North Sydney. Recommended to me by Steve Hogg. The resolution took longer than expected due to work pressures and inconsistency in following the program on my part. Once I got with the program it progressed quite quickly.
He diagnosed my problem quickly and the treatment was as quick as could be expected.
I've been to his practice on and off over the last couple of years.
I see Sarah Atree, as I started with her when Martin was busy and have maintained the relationship.
On bike fit - I also ride 4 bikes - 2 mtb, 2 road, 2 are geared, 2 are SS, have 3 pairs of shoes & 2 styles of cleats. Yes it's hard to be fitted to all.
After 25 years riding I finally went to Steve Hogg for a simple cleat fit. He put a bunch of wedges under my road cleats to angle my foot correctly (about 5 degrees by the looks of it), and bingo, less inner front knee pain after 100km/4hrs, no more numbness in my right outer foot etc. He also moved my cleats back 15mm and that's smoothed out my power delivery.
SPD cleats are harder to 'wedge'; and as they have quite a bit of roll compared with road cleats it's not as critical, but i do look forward to getting them tuned on my next visit.
I keep really detailed records of the position on all my bikes, have identical relative seat heights, and almost identical seat position behind the bb. The only variation across all bikes is reach, width and height of the bars.
I highly recommend you measure up your position and compare between each of your bikes. Then you can evaluate which one is more comfortable/ gives fewer pains/issues and bring the others closer to that position.
for Steve Hogg? I think I would like to see him for a cleat fit. I found I had pain in my right foot - I have moved the cleat forward which fixed this but now the inner part of my right knee feels a bit dodgy. A fit sound just the ticket. Only had cleats for about 4 to 5 months.
Ph: 02 9922 6806
Steve Hogg: Pedal Pushers at Rosebery. Don;t have number on me, but google is your friend.
Get in early - he has a long waiting list, and is not cheap. But worth every cent, especially if you are already having issues.
Trigger Point Technologies - http://www.tptherapy.com.au/
Best tools I have used for both multi-sport and cycling.
If you don't want see someone and have a proper bike fit done, at least search the net and find info on how to DIY. If the cause is your bike set-up etc. you could be fighting a never ending battle...
Thanks everyone - man, you lot love the bike fitting hey?
I'm personally still against bike-fit. Sorry. ar_junkie - its not that I dont want to pay for it, or that I want to do it DIY...
Here's some more of my thoughts as to why it isnt of interest to me(it certainly can work for some)....
So, about 10yrs ago I was part of the British Olympic team - for a period of 3 or 4 years. I got my position reviewed - countless times. It was ok. I had (at that stage been riding for 12years, 5 of which - since being a junior - at an international level).
Pedalling efficiency - cleat position, saddle height, relation to bb etc. All done over and over again for many years.
I have since tinkered with it, and honed it a fair bit - since being 12yrs old. I'm 33 yrs old today (happy brithday to me!). So, I have some history.
I gave up all sport for a 5yr period, and have since been back 'in the game' for 2yrs.
Now - my flexibility has changed, pedals have changed, shoes have changed and even saddles have changed. My experience, and knowledge of my body / position hasnt really. I still have many friends who in the UK are at the highest level of cycling and also sports medecine. We all agree that this problem (which has come on the last 3weeks - having changed nothing at all in terms of set-up) is unusual, and it is not a bike fit issue.
So - whilst I think that bike-fit does have its place, and is certainly a great starting point for many people, even the best bike-fitters will expect it to be tinkered with over time. I'm not saying bike-fit is not the way forward. It sure is, although more for road than MTB (based on time spent seated, lack of comparative float in pedals, and different depands re terrain - low saddle for drops etc).
I'd love to meet someone that can work with me, in isolation of my bike, to work out what the issue is, and then work on establishing the cause. Efficiency is not the issue (or at least I dont think it will be). Worn cartiledge, previous injury history, increased training load even - they may be the cause, more MTB (lower cadence) vs Road could be it - my body is used to 95-110 rpm. MTB racing is more 80-90rpm with greater 'peak' loads.
So - sorry for the speil, but a good physio is my first port of call. If no joy, then a bike fit guru.
Ants, am I able to work ask what you ended up doing here? I have pretty suddenly found myself with a knee issue, not exactly hurting as yet but it just feels very wrong and appears to be getting worse. Had a week off riding at all and not feeling all that better. I am not particularly swayed to any approach, I am sure that my bike could be set up better and it would help a lot but then again is that my roadie or mtb and then how do I translate that to a new bike? There is also the issue that I now have a problem that doesn't seem to be going away so obviously need that rectified.
Was making a booking with Blair Martin on a recommendation but did a quick search here and thought I might get some feedback since you mention it was a knee issue.
The guy I see will deal with your physical issues first up without trying to change the bike as first port of call. (Changing the bike as first port of call is what you're objecting to, I'm guessing?)
However, if progress stalls he will eventually want to see what you are like on your bike to eliminate that as an issue, and also to give him a clearer picture of how your movement patterns might be feeding into your injury (or not, as the case may be). He will also see lots of suble things in your movement patterns that most bike fitters (except perhaps Steve Hogg) will simply miss and that is a valuable exercise.
In my case, seeing me on my bike early on helped identify what I had to work on from a therapy program standpoint. It took me about 12 weeks to get where he was happy with me. Why so long? I had *lots* of issues with a long history that each needed to be resolved.
After I'd hit the marks, he asked me to bring the bike in a second time and this time we made one small change: a 2 degree twist to the right on the saddle and everything in my action lined up and I was pain free on long rides.
The reason I am seeing him again is a result of some unrelated incidents on and off the bike.
http://www.back-in-business-physiotherapy.com
I can also vouch for Martin - who helped fix a hip and shin problem with needles and stretching and strengthening exercises.
Thanks guys. I should say that I am definitely not against bikefit. In fact, if they did not incorporate a bikefit then that would concern me. It is more that I do not want it to be a bikfefit and then they send me on my way. Granted, the bikefit will probably the existing issues but having been to a lot of physios over the years for rowing and rugby related injuries I want to make sure that they specifically treat these issues as well as bikefit.
Hello hello.
Can I say I have found an awesome sports physio on the Northern Beaches. He is dedicated to his profession, always learning new stuff and is very aware of the bodies movement in different activities. I have seen numerous physio’s over the years but none have ever managed to fix the problem, best of all he loves running and riding which I find helps when talking about training and what I can can't do when I have an ache or injury....such as my recent little effort going coping of few little bumps .
He uses a combined approach of physio and osteo to find out what and where the problem is. It suprisses me because the problem is often not where the symptom. He is always looking at the biomechanics of my body getting me to do movements to make sure I am balanced head to toe, and then he alters the set up on my bike, to complement my body's mechanics which always feels so much better.
His name is Adrian Winkworth 0403 676 812 defiantly go and see him or give him a call . He is always up for a chat especially if you love exercising .