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Manly Dam Trail Works Walk


hawkeye's picture

By hawkeye - Posted on 02 July 2011

Re: This ride meeting: 
Manly Dam Trail Works Walk

Simon, Singlespeeder, Hawkeye and Hawkeye Jnr spent a few hours today looking at the Allambie trail section from 19th Hole to Cootamundra Drive/Monserra Road. If you were naughty and had been riding there in the wet today you will have noticed lots of yellow spraypaint on the ground by the side of the trail.

The circles with crosses through them will be where the contractor places large rocks to corral riders and - we hope - stop trail widening.

It was surprising how long it took. The key issue was to confine the track while both reducing speeds and maintaining trail flow.

19th Hole

The last 10-15m of the singletrack run into 19th Hole takes a hard turn to the right and exits at the top of the switchback entry. This area has been subject to consistent trail creep over the last few years as beginner riders struggled with the tight left turn while descending over slippery sand-covered rock and tree roots. A number of small trees were broken off just above the roots. In order to prevent further trail creep to the right, we've marked locations for rocks to be placed to keep riders left.

With the new exit, we expect a new line to form to the left for the more expert riders, while beginners will probably continue on the existing line.
19th Hole C-line entrance from new singletrack exit

At present there is a substantial puddle on the exit to this switchback. To prevent further intrusion into the vegetation (and off the side of the rock platform) we're suggesting placement of a couple of rocks to tighten up the exit.
19th Hole left turn switchback exit

The last roll-down to the clay pan is becoming a major problem for beginner riders. The bulldozing by Energy Australia of a 4WD track to access the power lines that run above this area has caused a serious water erosion issue which has accelerated substantially in recent months. We're hoping the contractor may be able to put some drainage improvements in this area to make the final drop-down more manageable, but what can be done will be limited by budget. The permanent fix will be to divert the water off the EA 4WD track before it gets to 19th Hole.

The green marks the water flow and the two pink lines the most common routes off the "C" line.

We appreciate the placement of the corralling rocks will close off the old A-line, but noted that the entrance to this line is now mostly overgrown from lack of use, and the condition of the middle landing zone is very poor to the point of being dangerous.

19th Hole bottom roll-down
Some rocks have been placed to corral riders to the centre of the transition and provide an opportunity for future revegetation efforts to "take".
19th Hole exit and transition to singletrack

Cootamundra Drive -> Monserra Ave

This section has been suffering erosion and trail widening for some time. The area down the bottom of the grade is almost constantly wet and will require drainage works and possibly a low elevated boardwalk. Rerouting options exist over rocky plaforms further downslope, but getting this approved would be problematic. The root cause appears to be either off-street or off-roof stormwater flows leaking into this area - there is far more water here than can be accounted for by normal rainfall.

The entry and climb out of this section are both rough and riders have widened the trail looking for easier lines. In some cases we have suggested rock placements to close these off where we expect they will widen further. The placement of the rocks will slow riders down by stopping them from straightlining the trail, while maintaining "flow".
Manly Dam Track Works - Allambie Heights - 4-8 July 2011
Manly Dam Track Works - Allambie Heights - 4-8 July 2011
Manly Dam Track Works - Allambie Heights - 4-8 July 2011

Where possible we have directed the trail over rock surfaces to minimise erosion.
Manly Dam Track Works - Allambie Heights - 4-8 July 2011

This next one we struggled with.

I tend to hang right and hop over the wet tree roots at the back of this shot, but if you miss-time it, it's easy to slip and hit the deck. Unfortunately there is no good option for the mid- and foreground. It's almost always wet.

After watching a few riders splash through here we felt it was best to direct them left at the end away from the long angled tree root, so we placed a rock to close off the right hand line and hopefully protect the tree. The placement of the rocks in the foreground should limit the spread of the damage and allow riders to negotiate the unavoidable roots more straight-on without needing to suddenly change direction on approach.
Manly Dam Track Works - Allambie Heights - 4-8 July 2011

On the climb out there's a clear line forming that has a nice flow to it. The rocks were placed to maintain the line while preventing it from widening further.
Manly Dam Track Works - Allambie Heights - 4-8 July 2011

Where possible, we aimed to close off the more fragile sections of the trail tread.
Manly Dam Track Works - Allambie Heights - 4-8 July 2011
Manly Dam Track Works - Allambie Heights - 4-8 July 2011
Manly Dam Track Works - Climb to Monserra Ave

Sorry for the long post - I thought it would be interesting for riders to see the thought processes that go into this. I'm still very new to this trail maintenance game. While I've read plenty of good material, I learned a lot today from watching Simon and Paul in action looking at the terrain on and off the trail.

PIVOT MACH 5's picture

I havent been on my mtb since January as I've been road racing but i am looking forward to having a spin around the dam sometime in the near future.

LadyToast's picture

Same, I hope I can remember how to get there, it's been a while. Funny but looking at these pictures I really struggle to recognise them, probably because most are taken looking back up the trail (?). I only know it from the riders perspective. Perhaps I should get off and look around more often. Smiling

Good work Hawkeye

CharlieB's picture

Looks good – saw this section running this weekend and it is very wet...

On the hair pin, was there any thought of closing off the new exit lines? You used to have to come right around the corner, and then roll down at the last minute before the big rock. These days you have two new exits well before this, the first being into the bush it looks as though it is encouraging the widening of the hair pin itself.

On the Cootamundra Drive -> Monserra Ave section – there is the section just before the tiny climb where lots of rocks are going to go that needs some board walk... It has always been a very wet section, and looking very sorry for itself and now a wide boggy marsh, instead of a narrow boggy marsh.

Simon's picture

CharlieB, if you mean the widening/braiding of the hair pin at the top in the first photo?

We considered closing off what is now the easiest and widest line, however it gets very high use.

Considering that with some drainage and rocks to prevent any further widening it is a sustainable line and the level of use we decided to retain it for now. We anticipate with the new alignment to 19th Hole the old line may again become more popular. We can then review at a later stage.

Sinkes's picture

Someone's been busy.
Congratulations on your work so far.
You deserve a ride now. Eye-wink

hawkeye's picture

Yes, we did consider closing it off.

I wasn't impressed that trees were deliberately damaged and broken off to create the line, and rewarding people for doing the wrong thing doesn't sit well. But that was 2 years ago. As Simon said it is now by far the most popular line, and with slight modification for drainage can be sustainable.

With the new exit from the singletrack we expect a change in line is likely anyway. We'll wait and see what riders do.

nrthrnben's picture

Hi Guys,

I really think the work you guys are doing is great, however i think we can make it even better by making small aditions to your planning?

A few things:

1. Who is IMBA trained or has significant trail design or building experience in your planning group?

2. I have noticed in your designs there is a large focus on trail width and erosion and flow, which are each very important. I believe it is very important every time a trail section is improved and all the effort is put in via walks/designs/contractors/volunteers a forth aspect should be looked at:

This is, Trail Fun!...the Dam is severly lacking in small Drops/Jumps berms that all good XC/AM tracks should have, for example:

Instead of putting just a rock at the side of the track, why not put a rock/angled jump that send the rider back onto the single trail but also adds the fun factor. (Please dont think im talking about Oxford Falls FR Gaps here, this is not suitable... just fun and safe additions to the trail.

And instead of putting water bars, put well placed logs covered in dirt that double as senders that can be ridden both ways and a B line that can also be walked around.

And yes safe wooden structures or boardwalks can be used on legal MTB tracks too, just like the walking tracks through the middle of the dam have.(they are sustainable and even fun when used imaginativly).

The last thing we all want is the Dam MTB trail to become a flat walking track, that twists and turns.

Lets make the most out of every bit of trail work, and improve the "Dam Fun" whilst keeping it sustainable.

Thanks again for the work to date, we are all grateful

Your thoughts everyone?

blunt's picture

Thanks for taking your time out to do all this work.... While i only occasionally ride the dam its much appreciatted....

I agree with the latest comment about 'fun factor'. The more berms, drops etc etc that make it a funner place to ride the better - all while keep the flow of the trail.....

Simon's picture

Nrthrnben and blunt, many thanks for your feedback.

All great ideas that longer term, from a riders perspective, would be great to see.

Note that we are not currently builders and are providing rider input to the Council specified works currently awarded to a local contractor.

What you see so far are initial results and the first steps in rebuilding relationships between riders and Council. Since early 2008 due to changes in staff and everyones time commitments this relationship broke down and in many ways the track degraded. Many of us have given up considerable time off work to get back to where we are now.

Initial priorities are to demonstrate how we can assist Council and the contractor with the aspects you have noted relating to trail width and erosion and flow. Obviously these are most important from an environmental perspective and the angle that many non-riders focus on, we need to bear in mind that there are a few people out there who are not convinced about mountain biking in general. The example the Dam sets from an environmental and visual perspective will be very influential in getting other trails approved in the area.

'Our designs' refered to are currently focused on returning the track to its original width with surrounding vegetation.

We also need to consider that much of this track is shared use and from an idealistic IMBA perspective not always well located.

The track is a bit of a legacy, much of it was previously walking track and other parts were cut for powerline access. Also some of the current non-fire trail segments are wide and open to meet fire truck emergency access requirements in the event of fire. There are further compromises to address wider drainage issues than just water on the track itself. Part of the track helps to control water runoff from the park to some of the surrounding houses. These aspects place a few constraints on it compared with a purpose built track.

We definitely understand Trail Fun, our group rides from XC to FR. We also have no intention of being an exclusive group and will be looking to get as many people involved and contributing to ideas and work very soon. We are just currently setting the ground work with Council, land managers, green groups etc. I have another meeting with staff at Council chambers this week and another one lined up later.

I disagree that Manly Dam is severely lacking, a bit harsh, as XC tracks go it has sections that are more technical than many other XC tracks. Yes, I agree there is not much AM other than options at 19th Hole and one other option on the Wakehurst side.

I have done some audit work for IMBA, others have trail building experience and qualifications in soil erosion etc. The contractor has also completed some IMBA training.

For those that missed earlier posts there are a few more details here http://nobmob.com/node/22408 and here http://nobmob.com/node/22068.

ADZA's picture

Gents,

while i don't have much trail building experience or qualifications in this area, i am always willing to help and can offer an analytical brain to problem solving trouble areas.

happy to tag along anytime needed to one of these, feel free to let me know

btw Hawkeye, i work at home bush on lvl3 opposite side to JacoJaco Smiling

hawkeye's picture

Cool, you should be easy to spot. Eye-wink

I'm in the CBD for the next month or so, but will be back at my usual seat almost directly below jaco on L2 thereafter.

lezo's picture

Simon and Hawkeye, thanks so much for the work that you have done and are continuing. As reps of us all in the local area and further afield, its very important to not have "too many cooks spoiling the broth". All of our collective ideas and suggestions chanelled through you guys is the way to go.

At the 19th hole, before the sharp left handed hairpin there is the steep roller, is it planned that will stay open ?? It's a good little challenge and i love seeing my mates stack there...

As a rider similar to nthrnben and blunt, I too would love to see some berms and some for drops/jumps with dual lines for different levels of skill as the boys suggested. On the section to Monserra Ave ?? coming in quick and bunning hopping the gutter there is one of my favourite sections of the whole track where you can flow like water using the whole track to maintain speed and the best line. My selfish concern is from what i can see ofg the location of the rocks, this fast line will be sacrificed. If we were to use berms that are set with base of rocks concreted and then covered with hard pack we can achieve two goals, 1) flora protection and 2) a great fast line. Any thoughts ?? Further on, the bog, could well do with some boardwalk that could finish just before that little rocky climb. As mentioned earlier in the conversation, there is a good flowing line through there. Many of the water bars have been levelled out and better drainage replacement it seems, this is where we could have some jumps to encourage launching the drainage section, no damage and others can ride through the rocks.

I've been offering my time and shovel to all who will listen. Let me know what, when and how I can help.

Thx again

hawkeye's picture

Hi Lezo, yes, good points. Simon and I were discussing the bog. We agree some kind of boardwalk will probably be necessary, possibly needing piering of some kind to elevate it off the ground, but it won't happen immediately. I'd prefer to try to locate and deal with the water source first, if possible

Regarding flowing lines, berms and so on through this section, we do need to recognise that it is very close to houses and local walkers use the trail as well despite mtbers being the majority. Saw a few go through with dogs while we were there. So speeds need to be kept in check.

At the moment we are still in the process of establishing relationships. A lot of other stakeholders such as green and community groups are highly emotionally invested in the Dam reserve and trust levels, while improving, are still at a fragile stage. A lot of them have valid concerns as well that need to be honoured. So for now it is important to build a track record and focus on the trail widening and erosion issues before we can have those other conversations about improving the trail from our perspective.

We are not yet sure that full IMBA compliance will be feasible at the Dam, or in what time frames, although it is something we are aiming to achieve as it would obviously be a win for everybody.

As for sweet flowy singletrack, Manly Dam is not the only opportunity we are working on. Smiling

lezo's picture

That sounds interesting mate, you'll have me dreaming of endless NZ style fast flowing bermed sweetness with launches...oops the sheets are wet !! Went too fast again, bugger it.

hawkeye's picture

"win for everybody" should read "win for all the stakeholder groups"

As for the other opportunities, it takes a lot of hard work and governments move at glacial pace with this sort of stuff so it could take awhile

The glacier is starting to thaw a bit though Smiling

jedijunglesnow's picture

Great work Hawkeye, very, very impressed.

One question - I understand that it is a shared track, but I remember when the singletrack on the final downhill bit from Sthn Cross was first put in, right where it comes out onto the rock berm at the top of Nyrang, there was a sign that directed walkers to avoid the single track and walk around on the existing fireroad section next to the houses. Likewise there was one facing the other direction half way up the hill directing the same thing.

Not that I agreed with the whole "Council closing off section to walkers" debacle last year, but for this section, from a safety and practicality perspective the signs were a good thing.

Any chance of putting them back?

Sasco's picture

Very impressive news on the strategic development of the area!!

I have something relevant to ask about: "I wish something could be done quickly about that last smaller rock in the main pink line as it could easily move under heavy loads and so it will eventually cause a crash since a rider sees it only the last moment when it is too late to jump..

Moreover I recall someone had been placing even more smaller rocks around it - presumably to make line smoother.. "

ido09s's picture

Loving the work guys. Its all beginning to look good again

Something that does have me a little puzzled though....if you were worried about the gradual widening and breaking off of small trees at the switch back, what was removing lots more to divert the trail going to do? Havent you removed a lot more trees to divert the trail than was being slowly eroded?

I may have read the reason wrong, but diverting the trail to stop the trail widening seems a little hypocritical to me. Surely the placement of rocks to the right would have been sufficient?

hawkeye's picture

... diverting the trail was driven by entirely by other reasons. Smiling

Primarily, Council was concerned about unaccompanied newbies shooting straight out of the end of the boards and riding off the A-line.

Hasn't happened yet in over 10 years so far as I'm aware, since you can see pretty clearly from some distance out that there's nowhere to go except empty space, but it made it into a consultant's report somewhere as an identified risk, so they felt compelled to act on it. The old line will be closed and hopefully rehabilitated with whatever the contractor removed to make the new line.

The corner might even be bermed when finished, and will have a grade reversal on the approach to divert water off the trail - this is definitely needed. Rode the new line today... works well, although it is as yet unfinished.

It was just as well we photographed the markings and posted them up here... the spray paint has almost completely disappeared.

Simon's picture

Thanks for your questions, part of what we are trying to do is explain to everyone the reason why things are happening.

It was in part due to safety concerns relating to the old A-line, although the current vegetation growth has reduced this risk.

The other factor is that the track channels water which was spilling over the old A-line to the general landing area. While the water run off is currently secondary to the 4WD track pushed in by the electricity board it still needs to be addressed. The newish 4WD track will also be looked at to control water.

Both of these aspects were discussed in the consulting report and rider submitted suggestions from a couple of years ago before the vegetation grew. This whole area has grown a lot, the vegetation on the track above used to be below eye level when riding.

In time the old alignment can be regenerated resulting in a positive net outcome with respect to vegetation and erosion control.

Going forward we plan to get riders involved to suggest more up to date maintenance requirements.

Brian's picture

I can't really see an issue the the 19th hole. I hadn't been to the dam for about 15 months and for me the worst section is the last bit of board walk with those steps next to them right at the end before you cross the bridge at the Hydro Labs. If the steps weren't there you could safely go to the left. I wish they removed the steps and board walk all together.

Simon's picture

We are definitely talking to council about this and will put it in as a rider suggested priority. I agree it needs to be addressed.

At moment there are specific areas council were focussing on from a consultants report. We have reviewed the report, overall it is okay but a little dated and it definitely needed some rider input during implementation.

hawkeye's picture

An issue with the hydro lab steps is that they are on UNSW land, not WSC-managed land.

There are a couple of options to consider regarding resolution of the hazard, and we’ll have an opportunity to get it prioritised through rider feedback hopefully in the next few months.

One option in the meantime is perhaps to ride the steps themselves instead of the normal lin.? It's not as silly as I thought when I first heard it. My son tells me it's a relatively common line choice among teenage riders, and has the benefit that if you get out of shape you're going to be falling away from the dangerous step corners.

danielschipper's picture

Rode the new line at 19th hole today and looks good. Only comment would be to open the exit out a bit to the right to make a smoother line to the steep role down... The current line spits you directly to the easy line.

With regards to the final 19th hole roll down and the rocks that were placed by so called trail faries this seems to be a problem at other locations also. The first technical climb up to wakehurst parkway has had rocks placed on the line to make it easier.

Are these part of the official works or are the unauthorized. If official can I comment that these sections are a bit more challenging than others and it's ok if beginners / intermediate riders have to get off and walk. The first time a ride of the dam is completed without a foot down should be an accomplishment that comes after experience and practise. In general though the works are great...if these changes are a necessary part of the works then so be it. Thanks to those responsible for the continued efforts to build relationships and put forward this communities needs.

If the works are unofficial and those responsible are reading the page....If you can't ride a line spend more time riding... Practise.... Wait and watch others who can ride the line and ask them for tips. But also please stop changing the trail to suit yourself.

lezo's picture

There is a tough line next to the tree on the left and hit the roots and launch over the steps completely, you do need a fair bit of pace. I've tried it twice for a 50% success return, pad up and give it a crack...

danielschipper's picture

I always found the second part of that line the hardest. I'd loose momentum then find it difficult to get the front wheel up the small rock shelf plus speed to bring the back wheel up. After a couple of attempts I cracked it but always need to think about it on the approach.

There have now been rocks placed at the rock shelf making it much easier to simply roll up. Not impressed.

lezo's picture

oops wrong steps, i was talking about the ones near the end of the trail, going down not up, after the right hander then down to the left, keep your speed, brakes off and back yourself.

pancakes's picture

+1 danielschipper.

I tried and tried and tried until I could finally clean those technical climbs. Unsurprisingly, just watching someone who knew what they were doing was 90% of it!

The next goal is to be able to clean them without stopping prior to catch my breath. For me that's what it's all about, not making the line easier.

Simon, Rob, hawkeye et al, job well done on engaging the council and getting some definite advancement of our cause. My riding buddies and I are happy to help out with maintenance days so make sure their posted up. I'll also have some time during the week in a couple of weeks if anything's going down.

As an aside, I was surprised to hear there were only 8 emails to the council from concerned riders regarding the track works. Given the responses here on NoBMoB I would have thought many more would have been sent.

Simon's picture

Many thanks for all the feedback!

New 19th hole line and trail 'fairies'
-Will need to check out exact locations, may be partially 'fairies' and partially trail works. Be good to put some pictures up. A large part of me has the opinion if you cant ride it walk, then another part knows that Manly Dam caters for a large cross section of riders and that unfortunately unofficial B-lines start to appear and cause issues where things are above the level of a number of riders. Where possible any rocks placed have been kept to a narrowish width so more advanced riders can step up beside it (eg Wakehurst side onto rock ledge, narrow rock for beginners. A significant proportion of riders struggle here without the small rock which is what caused widening).

Launch the steps
-This used to be the old A-line through this section prior to the steps (UNSW land) being constructed. Hopefully we can address this area in the future.

That left line has been dumbed down
-It has but should still be enough room to go around this rock. The approach angle onto the rock used to catch many people out resulting in the track deviating away from the ledge until most people seemed to not realise where the track originally went. Following our input this widening can now regenerate as the track has been returned to its original place. The new elevated boardwalk was higher than we expected so, now that the short cut does not lead anywhere, perhaps we could rethink this rock if its too wide to go to the side of it. We had expected to need it so the shortcut did not re-form.

+1 danielschipper. I tried
-I reckon most of technical stuff is 90% in the mind, one of the reasons I like techy stuff so much. Cant be stressing about work etc.
Thanks for your thanks! Its been a number of hours off work for the cause. Hawkeye and I keep alluding to a group forming linked to NoBMoB for trail input and volunteer crews. Will contact you soon and post up.

8 letters is a small number but we had some good timing. We had met with Council a couple of weeks before the works began over at Wakehurst. As soon as the first letter was received we were contacted by Councillors. We then set up an urgent meeting the next day with Council staff, rangers and the contractor and were able to give some immediate suggestions and also post up on NoBMoB about what was going on.

The letters definitely get noticed, however we are now at a point where we get faster action by contacting us directly or the rangers. Each letter written to Councilors takes up time by the whole chain of command type thing in Council and now that there is clear direction at the Dam, following last years consultation and Draft PoM, these letters now slow things down. Rangers should now be the first point of contact not Councilors. We are also looking at some online stuff too.

By meeting with them promptly and posting on NoBMoB to clarify and respond to complaints I believed we earned some brownie points with Council by making things easier for them and much more positive for them and the contractor. I also think we got a better outcome for riders.

This time for the 19th Hole they came to us first to get some input and so we could have the chance to explain to everyone what was going on and why rather than give us another surprise. This is very positive and they have also indicated they would like this approach to continue.

General
-There is now general understanding how dynamic a bike track is and how subtle aspects can cause widening, erosion and flow problems. Going forward we are expecting volunteer days to be able to provide necessary tweaks and some more significant works with supervision. The current works are not to be viewed as the definitive set in stone permanent solution of everything. They are just some more major works to provide basic framework that also require full insurances by someone with a proven track record etc.. We are expecting there will be opportunity for approved refinement where required through volunteer days.

nrthrnben's picture

on the single track leading up to the 19th hole

The line itself is much better than the old approach.

I am far from a complainer and i understand the need for sustainability but the new line is not exactly steep and i think the contractor works are overkill and not MTB friendly

The proper way to armour the trail is to use natural rocks similar to what is already in the area and dig them in with the flat bit up as per IMBA

As i was riding over it the other day it reminded me of a back yard Paved Pathway(deja vu), not a mtb single trail. Was i wrong?

Royal NP Maintenance

http://vimeo.com/26670611

http://www.trails2000.org/pdf1.pdf
(the important thing is that it still looks natural as per IMBA Pics above, and looks like a bush trail, not a "PP")

What i would have liked to see is a nice rock berm there leading into dug in armored rocks/sandstone

Also the new line after that Paved Pathway kind of sent me straight ahead off the trail(as is seen in the first photo above, maybe i was going too fast! i'll check it again next time, might need a berm ontop of the sandstone somehow.

I could be wrong but it seems every time i ride the Allambie DH there is just one less bit of fun and natural trail

Can we keep this in mind for future works?

Thoughts and Comments anyone?

crank's picture

I'm not sure if you are agreeing with what was done in that RNP video or not? It was all stone used from the local area, including the smaller filler material. I think the guys did a great job. Smiling

nrthrnben's picture

Sorry if that wasn't clear, yeah put that in as an example of how it should be done, agreed top work Smiling

All comments are about the 19th hole alterations at Manly Dam

Simon's picture

I haven't been around the Dam since all the recent rain as have been away for work so will check it out in the next few days.

It sounds like the topsoil may no longer be covering the stones? This was a concern and we may need to look at this. The stones should not be visible other than along the edges.

There is difficulty digging in stones deep enough to be stable as per typical IMBA here as the topsoil is very shallow and sitting on the rock shelf. This was why the contractor chose this method which is actually in IMBA as an option when other methods are not suitable.

While the gradients here are low the shallow topsoil is again a problem making it susceptible to erosion and getting blown out by bikes since it doesn't bind well to the rock platform. We decided to try this solution rather than the other alternative which would have been more board and chain.

I will also check the alignment although it should lead you more straight aheadish to the original steeper line as shown in the first photo in this series of posts. The current C-line which is a hard right was intended to be taken slower. I will take some pictures showing where the track originally went.

Flynny's picture
It sounds like the topsoil may no longer be covering the stones? This was a concern and we may need to look at this. The stones should not be visible other than along the edges.

I haven't riding the dam in years so it's hard to comment on specifics but a thin layer of sandy top soil over rock/pavers is never going to stay in place.

You say the bedrock is very close to the surface. is it possible take it all the way down to the rock shelf?

If that takes the trail tread too low what about anchoring the rock armour to the rock shelf with either a chemset or cement? There a a bunch of techniques to give concrete a realistic fake sandstone look and it will only be seen in between the larger rocks that get used on top.

nrthrnben's picture

You guys are doing a great job!

when I rode it, it didnt look like there was any topsoil at all,and it looked like pavers not stones.

As Flynny said, would it have been ok to just use the sandstone below as the riding surface,as per the original line?

Yes with the alignment, as you say you now ride the former b line, as said before I may have been coming in fast on the new line,but as it comes straight in, you have to be going very slow to take the 90degree turn after you take the rolldown.

There may be a better way to ride the section, ill stop and walk it next time, but it just seemed to not flow after the rolldown.

As you know, especially on Downhill sections its very important to keep flow.

This was just my experience as I like to take the entire allambie section as fast as possible as most of it is Downhill Smiling

Also are we looking at reopening the old Aline for the more experienced riders maybe with signage?(i think the potential line is shown on one of the photos in Simons Blog)

Simon's picture

Using the bedrock would likely put the tread to low and cause the downslope to erode out. Council are understandably keen to keep the topsoil.

When talking with Council and the contractor they understand that tweaks may be required. These may be addressed in future volunteer days. Even though things literally are we shouldn't see things as being set in stone.

The old A-line straight off the old alignment will stay closed, the landing has always washed out and the run out is not very clean. What I call the B-line riders left of the old alignment (two successive drops) is earmarked for work on the second landing in a future volunteer day once the power board 4wd track runoff is addressed.

This is all good discussion and we need to continue it. Council are receptive to a volunteer led trail audit. We will do this through a specific Trail Care group and combine site survey work with location specific forums online, much as we are doing now. Give everyone a chance to review and contribute.

You guys keen to help out?

daveh's picture

I live up the road and although Manly Dam it has its problem, I still feel very lucky to have something like this 2 minutes ride away and at the end of the day it actually is a pretty damn good loop with lots of variety and even more potential. Keen to see this come to fruition.

ido09s's picture

How about they invest in some signs and stop people riding it when wet? All the work in the world isnt going to help if they dont close the place after its rained.

If the guy who drives the old blue festiva that i met this morning is on here, mate you are an idiot! You say you checked the facebook page this morning and it said the Dam was open.... check the date next time!!! That was 3 days ago and the amount of rain that must have fallen last night would most certainly have had the trail closed.

I left the Hills this morning and all was dry, got there it was wet and i wasnt sure if i should ride or not.... i took a chance and rode from King St and made it about 100 metres past the school and knew it was to wet to ride so turned back.

Is there any word on what may be done with the bit of trail behind the school? Its always a mud bath after its rained and could do with some work

nrthrnben's picture

Ok fair enough with the council.

as with the old line, yes thats the line I was refering to.The line to the left of the overgrown Aline dro, its shown on a trailwalk photo in your blog. cant wait to get that fixed,wouldnt take much on our side.

Look forward to helping simon,PM,call or post up here when the time comes.

willy101's picture

well done to all involved, you guys have done a great job,

all i have to say is +1 for more jumps+berms+drops wherever possible, but if it is dangerous then whatevers best,

keeps it up,

will

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