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Has anyone had a ride of the pump track on Munibung Hill
NB: Originally posted elsewhere on the Global Riders Network and appears via syndication.
Runs really well, super fun
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Macq hills/Cardiff side? or Boolaroo side or right up on top?
Wow, that's a shift - they're actually naming hills after mountain bikes... albeit the single-wheel variety
Muni Bung Hill
now if I could ride my MTB up there now would be pure gold!!!!
Looking nice from Google Earth. Single trails?
Don't know if anyone took any notice, but when we were part of the steering committee for the LMCC cycle strategy, we managed to have Munibung noted as a "Future Mountainbike Facility".
Few land tenure issues to overcome as LMCC doesn't own the lot, but its in the strategy none the less. Now we just need to push it.
West side.. above Boolaroo, thats not the only MTB track up there. Also a track with berms, rollers and jumps being built. Lots of options for XC too
where's this at because I've been trying to find some good tracks up there on the maqaurie hills side. only found 1 that goes for about a minute and straight downhill no berms or jumps.
Is this somewhere near the huge round concrete pit? (& gigantic dirt jump?)
That's all I found.
Already on it Sammy, including a viable funding source. More to come mid next year.
Hit me up if you need anything from myself, the GTA or HMBA.
So keen to see munibung up and running properly. The Council seemed legitimately interested during the cycle plan meetings.
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I am interested in this as well, so if you need anything make it public here or shoot me a message, if I can help I will.
Might have to add this to my mapping list (along with Jesmond and Warners Bay - although Sammydog is helping me with the latter now)
do you mean getting legal tracks built up there ianD?
Careful guys, 90% of the trails on munibung are on private property. The current owner is turning a blind eye for now. Be patient ...
Yes, hold off on any building and listen to fwoark's advice.
Be patient.
read into that what you will.
how many trails have already been built up there already? i know of about 4
the whole place is an awesome playground for the hardtail, from the very top to bottom including the step is an awesome play for a dher or dirt jumper and the pump track is super fast and flows nicely and works well both ways, if anything ever comes about making the place legal it would make for an amazing play ground, it would be such a fun place to run old fashioned dual slalom races, youd just need to duplicate the track thats there already. its only really one guy that builds up there, i try and find time to help but when we finally get rain ive got dh tracks to work on so if anyone has free time in the wet get up there!
i ride there often and was wondering where your building trails?
Just a reminder it's now wet. The thing that worries me is I'm doubting they would legalise/approve any freeride stuff. It would be great to have legal freeride trails section for newcastle up there. Sure there would be enough volunteers to set a few good tracks up and lay down some rules.
If anyone is working on this project and think we could work something out for this kind of thing to happen, I would be dedicated to help. Please let me know if I can be involved/help.
The other thing is if pushing for 'legal' Xc trails up there puts the existing stuff at risk if being destroyed I say leave it, there's plenty of good Xc stuff elsewhere and the step up etc has been there a long time no harm done, and I don't mean any of that to sound rude just think out of respect for different mtb codes and comparison of Xc trails to good fun places to play on a hardtail it'd be nice to keep one of the few places to do so
Agree Nuke
it would be good.. but theres really not enough space. and alot of the downhill sections are really steep and theres a giant cliff
the push for legal trails up there is from the land owner. I get the feeling that the future of munibung is far more than just mtb anyway. That in itself, not any XC or other mtb trail, would be the biggest risk to losing the current trails.
Rather than get protective of secret trails that are not legal, it would be better to get involved when the time comes and make a push for legalisation and creation of some trails. I was on the Public Steering Committee for the Cycling Strategy 2021 when the Munibung trails were floated and there is another user on here who has a lot of knowledge of where this strategy is headed.
As far as I am aware no thought has been given at this point as to what trails or trail types will be included. Certainly no trail design has been done and ultimately the land owner will make the call as to what level of trail they will tolerate.
I agree that there is a massive shortage in Freeride trails, Ive seen examples in Vic where there has been trails that blur the line between freeride/DH (I know they are inherently different genres), so I think we are closer to seeing them appear in NSW. In the last few years, legal mtb has made massive leaps forward, the freeride stuff will eventually come in, but people need to be advocating for it.
instead of trying to protect the "illegal" trails. why not get the push for legal trails and improve the existing trails as well as make more trails?
The reasoning behind people being protective of secret trails is fair enough when you look at the amount of lone work that goes into building stuff like the step up and the pump track up there, they're not free ride stuff either they're just dirt jump practice. I know the guy that built everything up there speaks with the land owner every now and then and the only reason things havnt been knocked down is because its relatively quiet once there was more traffic and more chance of kooks with no idea trying to hit that step up its done for, legal dirt jumps look and ride like Cameron park which unfortunately is crap, good dirt jumps will never be legal because they're never 'safe'. As for freeriders and advocacy I can't say anything cos I don't know any, though the same problem is there for legal dh trails because safety concerns and imba regulations barely allow for a decent track anywhere, hence why we keep our good trails quiet.
I think you mean guidelines
As for them "barely allowing for decent track anywhere" I think perhaps you misunderstand what they're about. The IMBA guidelines are designed to help ensure sustainability and safety, while protecting the fun element of trails.
Safety isn't about dumbing down. Mountain biking is, after all, a risk activity. Safety is about making sure people know what they're getting themselves into, and practical things like making sure things like drop-off landing zones are free of trip and impaling hazards. Sustainability is about making sure the trail sections are appropriately constructed to sustain the expected use and withstand the environmental conditions without getting destroyed or damaging the environment. Canadian north shore structures for example can be IMBA compliant, if built well.
The issue with "good" DJ and DH tracks is one of insurers not understanding them, not IMBA compliance.
Trail Care is currently working with one or more of the insurers that provide public liability cover to a couple of councils in Sydney to help them understand the physics of DJ and DH, and why things like sharply defined take-off lips (kickers?), and the concave gap between take-off and landing ramps are actually a safety feature that prevents you landing on your bike if you need to throw it away mid-flight. Hopefully that will become a standard that will allow DJ, DH and Freeride tracks to be constructed in local government areas managed by more conservative councils.
Unfortunately, since we all have full-time jobs as well, that is taking a little bit of time.
To expand on hawkeye's comments, mtb is a new thing to land managers and really they are on a very steep learning curve. A few years back there was very few legal trails of even the XC genre.
In glenrock we are slowly pushing the envelope and things are opening. Freeride and DJ will come, but it will take us to get the land managers to be comfortable and understand them. That may even mean some watered down trails to start with that build up over time. Thats what we have done with XC features in Glenrock.
If I get as involved with munibung as I want to be, I will definitely be seeking the input/involvement of all riders of all backgrounds. From there we see where we can push it.
i understand that the 'guidelines' regulate the way trails are constructed and yes that they are there mostly for sustainability, just a personal opinion them guidelines work great in MOUNTAINS where you have the room to work with but we only have hills here that dont allow for a real fun long travel slack geometry trail using the 10% max that they recommend, but getting away from topic anyway sorry bout that, what worries me is any governing body moving into the hills at munibung would mean reconstruction of the existing stuff no matter what angle you look at it from which from my point of view would be a bit unfair on the guy thats worked his ass off up there for years to have somewhere that he loves to ride when referring to my original point you can hop on an xc bike and ride anywhere you want, and once again i dont want anything to sound rude or negative to anyone
Fair enough about the labour of love.
However since what he's doing there will inevitably come under scrutiny from parties that have an axe to grind against mountain bikes, if it's poorly executed and fails to heed what are now well understood sustainability principles, it reflects badly on us all and sets back our efforts substantially to get more tracks in everywhere.
At the moment it's hard enough getting land managers heads around the fact that DH and AM trails can be sustainable as well as XC, without the mtb community engaging in self-sabotage.
BTW, the 10% max is a guideline. It can be exceeded, so long as the appropriate water flow, erosion control and trail armouring techniques are employed If people CBF following that guideline, water flow will soon school them as to the reasons for it.
Synergy Trails' work at Old Man's Valley has really opened my eyes to what can be achieved in terms of fun and challenge while maintaining IMBA compliance. The HSMBA guys who worked the process to get the trail approved with Council and built are downhillers, as are the Synergy guys. The result is great.
Hoping to have an authorised DH trail announced in northern Sydney sometime real soon.
Getting legal trails in any form on Munibung hill is going to be a long process. I would estimate that even if things went smoothly, it will be at least five years before we could commence building legal trails. As I've mentioned previously, the area is subject to a rezoning. The two areas previously used for quarrying are high likely to be zoned residential by the middle of this year. Once the zoning is in place, there will need to be substantial stabilisation works undertaken before the land is subdivided and sold. The market for residential land is extremely flat at the moment, and with approximately 1,000 lots on the adjoining Pasminco land coming on the market, there is a good chance that these areas may remain as is for quite a few years to come.
The remainder of the hill is likely to be zoned environmental, and is where we the trails are being considered. This land will hopefully end up in the ownership of the council, but even that is not guaranteed. Once the council has control of the land, then design work can commence on the trails. I'm currently working on a secure funding source for the trails, however its still early days and its not clear on how much support we will have.
As for the type of trails, there is definitely some recognition that we need to cater for freeride / DH and not just xc. However, as Sammydawg and others have said, MTB trails are a new issue for land managers. Even though the Cameron Park bmx track is quite tame, even that has been a large step forwards (and a very steep learning curve) for the council. There are plans to roll out several similar bmx tracks around the City over the next few years.
Generally, council's and other land managers and slowly coming to the realisation that if the wish to minimise the number of illegal trails on their land, they do need to provide high quality legal facilities that meet the needs of users.
Yeah I havnt been down to old mans valley yet but learnt alot just from building with adrian at ourimbah and with one of my best mates and main riding and building buddies being a permanent employee of synergy I've heard all about the rock armouring and how much fun it was haha it is the only way to do it and has been done on our track where it was needed, the trails munibung have proven sustainable with how long they've been there and especially with the mix of guys on 50s and the fact they're out in the open with no help from tree roots, no doubt the stuff up there will have to come down eventually and surprisingly it hasn't yet, I think the first thing on the agenda up there would be to fill that big ass hole in!
fwoark.......5 years is short term compared to what it took to get Glenrock or Awaba up and running.
Yeah, government pace. Glaciers move faster. :rolls eyes:
Ridiculous that it takes so long. Our bureaucracy makes India look positively fast.
Hey, I work in the bureaucracy.
As fwoark says, there are external influences that limit the potential of munibung to go ahead quickly.
NPWS wise, I find them better and more reasonable than Forests NSW to work with in terms of new trails. Wasn't always that way,
Grease the wheels like India with $$$ at every level needed!!!
i was up there yesterday to try and find a good spot to build trails. all i could find is lantana bush. there could be some spots that i havnt been yet. but i dont think we could get a dh/fr track up there