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Tubeless rims and tyres


ahein's picture

By ahein - Posted on 02 October 2012

It's my first time posting on the forum and was hoping someone could give me some advice on tubeless tyres and rims. After getting 3 flats riding manly dam yesterday i thought it might be worthwhile to change to tubeless but have no idea what to look for or how much I would need to spend.

I ride a 26" giant hardtail at the moment and mainly ride around manly dam and cascades. Any help would be greatly appreciated I am getting really sick of changing or repairing tubes on the side of the trail

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Jeff's picture

Sooner the better.
Check with your LBS if there's an easy reliable conversion for your wheels. Consider LUST ignitor or Nobby Nic Front wheel and Crossmark or Racing Ralph back wheel. Have fun. See you at Cascades.

GW's picture

You could also look at a set of tyres with a stronger side wall if you're getting pinch flats over actual punctures, it might be a cheaper option if your wheels aren't tubeless compatible, but I had the same thing happen last year and switched to tubeless and haven't looked back.. It really is the way to go if you have the spare cash.

MikeyS's picture

HI ahein,
I've personally had some great experiences with the bontrager tubeless system. I'm personally using the bontrager XR2 team issue 2.1 tires on both my bikes (one with a rubena sealant and another with the new bontrager Tubeless solution). If you want a bit more grip the XR3 is probably ideal for the dam and cascades and comes in tubeless ready as well, although my personal preference is the XR2 as its very fast rolling.
My praise for the bontrager system is really for a few reasons. First of all the tires are quite lightweight (535 for my 26 inch tires), yet are really sturdy. I've used them at races all over the place with sharp rocks and roots yet the tire isn't even scuffed on the outside - I am really quite impressed with the sidewalls. Secondly the bead is quite good (im about 74 kilos and run the tires around 25 psi) as I've had no leaks with them and have yet to roll a tire even though I've been using them for about a year.
The Brookvale Bike Factory should be able to hook you up with the system as they did for me. Ask them about converting your rims with a Rubena kit (which has everything for two rims and also has a decent sealant).
The cool thing about all the bontrager stuff is if you don't like it you can return it within the month for a full refund (at least that's what I was told by the guys at the shop) so really you've got nothing to lose in my opinion.
I hope this helps!
Mike

danielschipper's picture

You won't look back. Keen for a Cascades ride this weekend?

Jonathan's picture

Depending on how old ur bike/wheelset is they might be tubeless ready. You can open your wheel up and if theres a strip of plastic tape chances are there tubeless ready in which case all you need is valves, sealant, and ust tyres. Tubeless is defiantly the way to go! I just went and haven't looked back, much more grip and a much more supple ride which would be a huge bonus on a ht 26"er Laughing out loud

Cascades FTW!!!!

Goodluck, Jono.

cambo's picture

I had I Giant HT when I first went tubeless as well. Got a set of Shimano MT65 tubeless wheels from CRC for $220 and thought they were great. Yes they are a bit heavier than XT or XTR but are you racing or riding for the social aspect? Great wheels and I hammered them, they took everything I gave them. Once they were on I threw a Maxis Ignitor on the front or an Advantage if it was wet, the rear either a Cossmark or Larsen all LUST. (Don't put a Cossmark on the front though, guarantee you'll lose the front end). You'll never look back once you change. They come in either 6 bolt or centre lock and if you do some looking I reckon you'll do a full change over for under $300 and no stuffing around with conversion kits

hawkeye's picture

... if your rims aren't already UST. Much prefer their conversion system over Stans, although it is important to get the right Bonty strips to match your rims.

The main challenge is keeping your last meal from escaping in the face of the constant stream of blather from the BBF store owner about how the sun just absolutely shines out of everything Trek / Bontrager. Smiling

I know they do good stuff (I *really* like the Bontrager RXL shoes I bought from him) but they'd probably make their point better if they turned it down a notch or two from "11".

That "bring it back within a month if you don't like it" offer is a brilliant marketing strategy - totally takes the risk out for the buyer. Kudos to them for having the balls to do it.

cambowambo's picture

I tried tubeless for 8 years with mixed success. One time I actually blew a UST front tyre on the road to Manly Dam, some tubeless combinations lasted for a few rides, others for a few months, but I always felt like it was a matter of luck and eventually they all failed me - in which case I always needed to put in a tube to get myself home.

So now I'm back with tubes and I haven't had a problem in 9 months so I consider this a far better outcome.

The trick is appropriate tyre pressures combined with strong tubes (I use maxis freeride) with appropriate tyres.

Yes, I realise that at NoBMoB saying you prefer tubes is a heresy Shocked

For me, riding Manly Dam, at my weight, with my riding style, for my bike, I've found that I rarely have problems with the front end but I definitely need to run 40-45psi in the rear plus a stronger rear tyre sidewall. With that dialled I've had no problems.

IMHO: if you had 3 flats on Manly Dam yesterday you were obviously running too low a tyre pressure - add 20 psi. Then take a look at your tubes and your sidewalls. You can bump them in strength for a lot less $ than going tubeless Smiling

StanTheMan's picture

Although I run tubeless cambowambo does have a point. Its mostly about pressure. I ripped a hole i my sidewall recently on Red Hill. I'm currently running tubes on the front only. However you can get flats with tubes & you can burp your tyre with tubless running wrong pressures with either set up.
if you are hammering Manly Dam. You need to find pressure that gives you lots of grip but without burpig the tyre when you hit bigger bumps on the downhill bits at Manly Dam on a tubed set up I ran 35psi on the front. Rear was 40psi. I weigh 85kg with all the gear. give or take a kilo or two depending on how close to a major race I'm at.

Before I had my current UST wheels. I Had Giant rims which came with my anthem X3. The conversion was OK. I used the Stans rubber seal thingo. Even on a propper UST tyre there was a little leakage. I was using Continentals Racing kings. (don't recomend for the front around Manly Dam)

If you have UST rims. Don't bother with Schwalbe Evo Tubless Ready. yes they are very light but will most likely leak. I'd recomend a snake skin at a minimum. Of course if you are anal & check pressure before every ride by all means knock yourself out. But I'd only put it on the front. sure when racing pressures get checked all the time. Anyhow.....snake skin or propper UST will hold pressure much much better and protect for punctures more.

Tubless does not guarrantee no puntures. Like tubes, a little maintenance is required. Mainly being correct pressure. Low enough for max grip. Hard enough to prevent burping or punctures.

yes you can still rip a UST tyre too. In my case it was no surprise.

I wholehartedly agree as well.....if you had 3 flats.....perhaps a small chance your tyres are toast....but most likely running pressure too low.

StanTheMan's picture

duhhhh......D...D....Double post.

ahein's picture

Thanks for all the comments it definitely gives me some food for thought and has made me slightly wiser before jumping in. Might go around to a few bike stores to price up options and try upping the pressures on the rear in the meantime.

Cheers
Adam

StanTheMan's picture

this explains it quite well.
http://www.slowtwitch.com/Tech/All_About_Tubeles...

for those who are still not quite sure what ts all about.

hawkeye's picture

Pressures with tubeless very much depends on the tyres' construction, it seems.

With Maxxis about 30psi was great on the front with a 2.2. Lots of grip, steering and traction both very positive and no wallowing. But running that with a Schwalbe Nobby Nic 2.25 was front washuot waiting to happen around the Dam. 25psi worked really well though, with no threat of burping.

Running 25 psi on the front with these Rubena XC race tyres led to burping the front on the lamest of rocky rollovers when I brushed the side of a rock, and the front felt ... well, insecure before that. Definitely not "planted". 30psi works much better - front feels much more positive.

The rear I tend to run between 30-34 depending on track surface with a view to finding the balance between rolling resistance, comfort and control, usually settling on 32. I'm about 85kg by the time I've got all the gear on including camelbak. I definitely prefer UST beaded tyres for their tighter fit.

Surprised by your experience, cambo. Would you call yourself an aggressive rider, compared to the average?

cambowambo's picture

Actually Hawkeye I pride myself on being as light and smooth as possible on my equipment.

I am 90kg so that can be a bit of an impact at speed which I think is my main problem. But to be honest many have blown up for no apparent reason, some just would never hold air well enough.

In nearly 8 years of riding tubeless I have hardly ever worn a UST tyre out - they nearly always blow up first.

I've always run UST rims (Mavic 819s in the old days, and DT Swiss XM 540s now - because they're wider). I've tried lots of UST tyre models from these manufacturers: Maxxis, Schwalbe, Continental, Kenda, WTB and Specialized and I've had failures with all of them - some individual tyres have gone well for months, but the worst case (a Nobby Nic) burped off my front rim on King Street on my way to The Dam for its first ride (its free replacement lasted a few weeks).

YMMV Smiling

DudeistPriest's picture

Maybe give Panaracer Fire XC Pros a go: http://www.wiggle.co.uk/panaracer-fire-xc-pro-fo... I use the 2.1 front and back at 30psi on my 26er and don't get a lot of flats.

Rossm's picture

I got sick of punctures & installed a pair of Foss tubes 18 months ago. Haven't had a flat since!!! I ride 2 - 3 times a week on the tracks around West Head & McCarrs Ck

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