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Chain Suck


mccann's picture

By mccann - Posted on 19 February 2008

Has anyone got any theories? I have been on the cascades trail for the last few weeks. A lot of sand, water and some mud. When on the duale I get a lot of chain suck. I have been out on the hard tail three times this week on the same track same sand, water and mud and no chain suck. The hard tail has cheaper running gear but I use the same lube on both bikes.
This is my second dual suspension and it happens on both with the same conditions.
So my question is: are dual suspensions more inclined to have chain suck than hard tails.

alchemist's picture

Yes. There is ONE way you can avoid chain suck...

Little-Ditty's picture

He is crazy. Sticking out tongue

Mick's picture

The answer is probably yes, because you can't maintain the same level of chain tension in a dualy as compared to a hard tail. My suggestion is to check the teeth on your middle chainring (assuming that is the chainring you use the most and that is the chainring where you are experiencing the chainsuck). If the teeth are starting to look like crested waves, then it's time for a new chainring. Also make sure that your chain isn't worn/stretched. If so, you will also need a new chain which usually requires a new cassette. Anyways, a new chainring, chain and cassette is what I had to invest in to put an end to my chain suck (it was pricey but bloody worth it). Good luck.

Stuart M's picture

when they are wet Eye-wink

Rob's picture

For those who don't know, the ONE way to avoid chain suck Alchemist refers to is to go single speed.

Sadly this might suck for other reasons if you don't have legs made of iron, especially at Cascades! Eye-wink

Hmmmmm... having impure thoughts of a SS 29er! Laughing out loud

Carlgroover's picture

Ahh, I like cheap middle chainrings like Deore because they are steel, buy XT and they give you a slighty lighter alloy one, I replace all my middle chain rings with the cheap deore and then your whole drive chain lasts longer.
John

mccann's picture

i changed the middle ring about 6 weeks ago with XT, and put on a new chain. i didnt change the cassette as there was no sign of wear. should i change the cassette?.

lorrie's picture

You only need to change the cassette if the chains skips on it when you accelerate hard.

Keep an eye on the granny ring and the big ring as well - if they look like waves or fins change cause they will pre-maturely wear your chain.

When you start using the bike a lot, let's say on average 3-4hrs a week here then you need to think about changing the drivetrain every 9 months as this is my experience with my Shimano XT set up. In two years i'm on my second cassette and rings at the front and third chain. So it pays to figure out what material your drivetrain is made out of remembering when it would be due for changing. If its steel it will last for a long time but it will be a heavy set up.

I also (let the paying out begin) have two chains with I swap and also clean every 2-3 weeks on the bike. This will help lengthen the life of your drivetrain.

I think Pikey wrote a good section on how to look for wear and tear on the chain, cogs and cassettes have a search on the website and you'll come up with it.

Brian's picture

I am not sure if this should be a new topic but... Lorrie you say you clean your chain every 2-3 weeks. I use a chain cleaner and I completely degrease and clean my chain, rings and cassette after every ride. Maybe I'm obsessive.

leximack's picture

the best way i find to prolong life of bits and pieces is to have a few bikes, ride them all equally and share the love around. This way you only change the drive train maybe every 2 or 3 yrs, change the drive train once and when its due for the 2nd set, well it should be fairly old now, time for a new bike.

Don

Rob's picture

Hey Brian, not obsessive at all. Unless it's been very dry (and hence no sand or grit in the drive train) it's probably best to run the chain through a cleaning device after every ride. What I do.

FWIW, I got 400Km out of a HG53 and over double that from a HG93, I waffled about it here. This will probably last another few months before the full kit gets a change. That'll be about a year of riding and two chains. If I'd have caught it in time would like to thing the whole lot would have lasted longer - maybe a 18 months and three chains?

Buck's picture

So many variables with drivetrain maintenance. I too had a HG53 and it lasted around 900km. Then I changed to a HG93 and it has done around 1200km so far and it still has less than 0.75% wear on it according to the Park Tools chain guage.

However I have been starting to get chain suck on the front so the middle ring maybe gone. Cassette also seems fine after more than 2000km. This maybe due to the fact that I have low end gear such as Deore level cranks and low end SRAM cassette which maybe made of heavier but stronger metals?

As for lube I use Rock and Roll Gold. I never degrease the chain since I switched to that lube as hardly anything sticks to it at all. All just washes off with water after a ride.

Brian's picture

By the sounds of it, it looks like a need to get a chain guage tool. I must know the percentage of wear. Smiling

Matt's picture

1. Get a cheap chain wear checker and check your chain every few weeks, if it's getting to the stage where the wear guage is reaching its limit then change the chain, but only the chain mind. Do that and you don't need to replace chainrings or cassette and save yourself lots in the long run. Chains are cheap.

(Which in a roundabout way answers the question you originally asked as to whether you need to change the cassette, yes if you've had the last chain on there for ages, probably not if you haven't)

2. While a full degrease of your chain IMHO is going overboard, you should clean and lube it after every ride. If you use a decent self-cleaning chain lube (say Rock & Roll gold or White lightning) then all you need do is give the chain a wipe over with a cloth, apply lube to the full length of the inside of the chain, shift around through the gears for a few minutes, then wipe off excess with your trusty cloth. Then get shouted at by your significant other for using the same cloth we wash the dishes with...

...and that's it, aside from brushing off any clinging crap around jockey wheels or chainrings. That and wiping off your suspension sliders/seals is all you really need to do after every ride.

Of course if you really want to get into the nuts and bolts you could apply the late great Sheldon Brown ShelBroCo Bicycle Chain Cleaning System TM (http://sheldonbrown.com/chainclean.html)...

Ta,
Matt.

RIP Sheldon, to whom I owe all my (lack of) wheelbuilding skills.

Rob's picture

FWIW, I have a Park CC-3, $9.95 from Jenson:

http://www.jensonusa.com/store/product/TL605A00-...

This can tell you when you are over 0.75% and again when you are over 1% wear. If you are over 0.75%, but not 1%, all good, change the chain only. If you are over 1%... doh! Leave it all and run it into the ground before replacing the lot.

As Matt says, with such a tool you need to check regularly as you can't know how close to 0.75% wear you are. If you want that kind of indication, lookie here and the Wippermann version, $18.50 from Jenson:

http://www.jensonusa.com/store/product/TL401A05-...

This has two arms that splay out more as your chain wears. The closer the bottom of the tool to your chain, the more it is worn, so you can see the progress the sand and grit is making, rather than having that sudden realisation that the other kind gives you.

Carlgroover's picture

I have not done this but want to. Buy whole new drive train and 3 chains and 3 joining links and only use each chain for say 200km (more or less depending on how OCD you are,) then put the 1st chain back on and start the process again until the whole lot is stuffed.
Because your mostly using new chains for a long time the chainrings/cassette don't wear as fast as using 1 chain till it's stuffed. Chain suck shouldn't happen because all the chains are stretching together with the wear of the other parts.
John.

delicious's picture

This is a clever aproach however I've found that the following works best for me;
1.Start with high quality everything.I use blackspire or raceface rings,XT cassettes and XTR chains and a connex link.
2.Keep a close eye on everything.Regular cleaning etc and use the chain checker a lot.
3.Lube like a madman
4.This is important so pay attention.Use all your gears as often as possible,keeping your chainline as straight as possible.Don't live in the middle ring and certainly no extreme gear selections.Keep your shift system in order and no loading or crunchy changes.
I go through four chains for a set of rings and cassette and on the bike I ride to work which cops 100km a week the less than high quality oem rings and cassette lasted two years and now the good stuff is lasting really nicely after two and a bit years and I'm on only my second chain which is nine months old and doesn't even show 0.75% wear yet.
Those who wish to splash out on connex chains will get even longer life...

Bernd's picture

Rohloff chain SLT 99 does it for me!!!!!
You all know that, never had a problem in over 4 years!
Bernd

hawkeye's picture

Bernd, are you saying your current chain is 4 years old,or you've been using them for four years with regular changes and no need to change rings or cassette?

Bernd's picture

change, but the first year not a lot of riding due to a injury,
so I can comfortly say it is on the bike for 4 years and has been used for good 3 to 3 1/2 years.
The Rohloff chain is famous for up to 10000km on bike's , guy's which ride around the world and so on!

http://www.bikemagic.com/review/reviewproductrev...

Bernd

Stuart M's picture

You haven't had your bike for four years!!

Are you telling us your a dog?

Bernd's picture

.. you are good, I think I bought the Rohloff chain in March 2005,
and than in August had the injury, so I probably started riding proper end of 2005!
So nearly 3 years and no where near 10000km, but still good as Gold!
Bernd

mccann's picture

thanks for the input some good and some very good.
today i cleaned the chain cassette and rings. then lubed.
i went to cascades from davidson to ralson no chain suck but on the way back a lot of chain suck.
so my only option is to change the cassette, chain and middle,granny rings.
i am wondering if there is anybody out there with the time, tools and skill to help me with the change over all i can offer in return is free beer, not just any beer, i brew and keg my own at the moment i have beck, crown, kilkenny and a stout so if any one fancys a few beers in return for labour i would be very grateful.

christine's picture

I can actually comment on this!! woo hooo!!!
i also had chain suck an awful lot - on most rides really...
Eventually, i changed my chain, middle ring and cluster and have not had chain suck since - it's fabulous! I got all the parts from Supreme and George fitted it... except the middle chain ring which Supreme did - it all cost just over $100 and I am very very happy!
of course, now i am also a madwoman with the white lightening!

MEEEE Smiling

delicious's picture

I'll be up for that.I reckon I'm rather mechanically clever and am more than happy to give a demo.

mccann's picture

thanks to all who give me advice on chain suck. i changed the cassette, chain and 3 front rings at the weekend with the help of belrose cycles who changed the cassette very quickly.
i went out for a ride to the cascades and guess what no chain suck.
i will be checking my chain ofter now and will change it as required.
so once again thanks.

shano's picture

If you can...change them before they are worn out...or just worn in, and then just keep rotating them regularly.
that should work in theory...but will be giving it a go when I replace my Rings/Cassette next!
Smiling
Shano

Rob's picture

Stumbled across this just now, more info than you could ever need!

http://fagan.co.za/Bikes/Csuck/

Eg:

Eye-wink

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