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hawkeye's picture

By hawkeye - Posted on 03 September 2014

Well we've had the Amway version of mountain bike coaching and nutrition put to us, but since the way that was sold on this forum raised a few too many red flags for me, I'm looking for some more conventional alternatives.

Can anyone suggest or recommend a coach to work with? Experience with - ahem - more "senior" athletes would be well regarded.

I have recently acquired power meters on both roadie and race mtb with this in mind. Can work with a remote coach if needed but prefer someone local to Sydney, and Northern Beaches would be better.

Let me know your thoughts!

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rossco_'s picture

I think Anthony does coach. I am interested in group training ride with different level of handicap. Alternatively, strava analysis may be helpful on local trail. I remember he did the boot camp a few weeks ago.

kitttheknightrider's picture

and I have some tried and tested methods for getting the best out of "older" riders


http://youtu.be/FYuSvPWxaZw

Eye-wink

Video should start @ 39 seconds.

Antsonline's picture

Yeah and no. I dont REALLY coach - not in the way that @Hawkeye is looking for.
There are a few athletes that i di write programs for, and help with their race programs, and power levels etc - but its not my 'job' and I have just no time to do anything more. Even those athletes that I do help will tell you that sometimes I can be difficult!

Its interesting how little is available to be honest though - the high number of people that ask or inquire is incredible. The lack of knowledge or resource is really something MTBA should be looking at.

In terms of recommendations, and advice for coaches - I would look for someone who is local / can spend time with you face to face before i looked for their success in achieving gold medals. Remote coaching is a VERY difficult thing. It can be done well, but it is so much easier if you are near to, or know, the coach.

The use of Power in the context of MTB racing and training is a rare area of expertise. Even the different demands between XC and Marathon racing require a different approach.

That being said - there are some good books available, and I am always happy to help with direct questions and answers - its only my experience (and that of the riders I help) that I speak from however.
The most important thing in all of this is to build a bank of data. Log everything from every ride. Hard rides, easy rides, flat rides, hilly rides, trainer sessions and group rides...after 3 months you will be able to start to look at the data and take value from it.
Final thing about power - you will need to know your 'baseline' - your fitness - via your threshold power (FTP). The best way to test and ascertain this is a 20min maximal effort. That number - be it 200watts, or 420watts - is the key to pretty much everything.
Hope that helps.

Slowpup's picture

Does Jay Bailey still coach? JDB on here..... I haven't seen him around for a while though.

hawkeye's picture

I guess the thing I am looking for is someone to write a program that will help me maximise outcomes within the limitations of my available time, and then tweak it as needed when the inevitable setbacks strike (work, illness etc) so as to give best chances of getting back on target.

Based on a couple of trainer sessions done so far, I'm at about 200w estimated ftp... so lots of room for improvement. Smiling

The reason I mention knowledge of seniors requirements specifically is that I know from experience that the usual 3 weeks hard 1 week easy cycle typical for under-40s doesn't allow enough recovery for me in the context of my existing routine.

jdb's picture

Talk to radek at zoom in zones http://www.zoominzones.com.au/

The Wednesday night group training on turbo trainers is always a solid workout

Antsonline's picture

Whilst I dont want to look like I am shutting you down here - age is certainly not the thing that defines your ability to train or tolerate workload.
I was riding with a 49yr roadie who is still good enough to give pretty much everyone I know a solid kicking...

Here are some things to consider - hopefully they will show why distance coaching, or following a template isnt optimal, and also how much time would go into coaching someone properly...

The 3 week / 1 week cycle is really just an arbitrary level because it fits nicely into a calendar month. Much the same is a 7 day training cycle - it fits into a calendar week.
The ratio of work to rest should be completely specific to an individuals ability to tolerate the given workload - which is typically dictated by their fitness and ability to recover.
At various points in a training cycle you *ought to have* different work:recovery ratios depending on what you are looking to achieve. I often work to a 4 or 5 week on, 3 day off cycle - because I can tolerate that - once fit. I might start the year with 10days on, 4 days easy.
A couple of the riders (both under the age of 30) that I help (who are two of the fastest short track racers in Australia) have been on a 3day on, 1 day complete rest cycle - and despite their ability and physical prowess, this nearly breaks them - because of the enormous intensity for those 3 days.

Workload and Recovery: it changes with you. As should your program. And those changes are very difficult to 'template' - as (like you have identified) life gets in the way - work, family, sickness, motivation, rain, etc - they all play havoc with perfectly planned programs. Again - reasons to find someone who is flexible, who can adapt, and who will listen to you regularly.
Think about how much time that takes to do well - and then relate that to how much people are willing to pay for it - and you will see why there aren't more coaches out there. The math doesn't work. From a personal perspective, I don't charge, but do it as a 'karma' thing. To help people out. I couldn't put a price on it really - even if I had to. If I did, no-one would pay it.

Final thing to consider - and its a point that is often missed - consider the reasons why you like cycling. The group rides, the camaraderie, the social side of things - once you have a program and a power meter all of that changes. Significantly. Even if you ride in a bunch, you will be annoyed if they go too fast, or too slow, or they puncture, or change the planned route mid-ride. It can really change you as a rider - and sometimes not always for the better.
For the riders I help, I try and put in a few (maybe 3 or 4 a month) rides that I call "mental health" rides - no power, no timing, no nothing, other than the sun, the wind and some friends. It keeps you reminded why you love riding.

Pete B's picture

Great advice there Ant and intresting what you say about power meters change the way you ride. It took a long time for me to realise I didn't have to go hard on every ride after getting into Strava. I still log every ride and acknowledge that it has changed me and many others but now ride for fun too.

Brian's picture

You definitely need a goal to remind you why you're out there doing hill repeats before the sun comes up Eye-wink

james lamb's picture

You can't Fault advice from Ant.

Templates only go so far in the way of helping people.
My knowledge of what motivates people by experiencing 10years of the fitness industry plus achieving 24solo races and the Croc Trophy
I'm very skilled in programming a rider to improve fitness without damaging mental or physical health.

That I'd rather push your limits on a training camp.

Got some mates who want a training camp?

I'm in the final 8weeks of my degree so my spare time is rare so unless you are Hawkeye (he got in first) I'm overloaded atm.

Not sure about training to power?

Visit CycleStudio in Balgowlah heights. I'm there Tuesday nights and Saturday morning.

Chops

hawkeye's picture

... but I often end up getting that way a bit with training, anyway. Sad By the time the event rolls around I'm looking forward to a few social rides afterwards.

The roadie I use mainly for fitting in training on the way to and from work, or in the hydraulic trainer, so it tends not to be social anyway. A PM on that bike won't impact weekend fun rides.

The PM on the XC bike is just to be able quantify total training load and complete the picture. I never look at the Garmin in singletrack - too busy scanning the trail!

Brian's picture

@Hawkeye, I have a PM on my road and mtb. You will find the training load on the mtb will be lower then the road bike but the fatigue on the body will be much higher on the mtb.

I find a solid 4 hour road ride only leaves my legs feeling it and I have a high TSS. A solid 4 hours around Ourimbah has a lower TSS and my whole body is shattered.

As per previous posts, at first you need to do a 20 minute test to establish your power zones. A word of warning, these hurt a lot Eye-wink

hawkeye's picture

Where do you do these 20min test sessions? Hoping you're not going to say on the trainer Eye-wink

the.flying.al's picture

Purely for the conditioning training, trainer road has a good set of power based workouts. You use a USB ant+ thing to let your power meter talk to your PC. Trainer road also has some programs which you can follow, as well as a protocol for a 20 minute test. Sufferfest rubber glove is a good 20 minute protocol, you can buy the vid and run it through trainer road or just run the protocol without the vid.

This will of course not do anything for skills. Hopefully living close to trails will help you, which is my downfall.

As far as finding a coach. I have tried it but have given up on it. The benefit of the experience and knowledge of a coach is great but I always feel that it is impossible for them to spend enough time on individual clients. What I lose from experience I gain from the fact I am pretty focussed on my own progress. Also doing it on my own means I can work around my own life a bit easier.

But then again maybe I just couldn't find the right coach.

Brian's picture

I've done on the trainer and the road. The last one I did was from the Narrabeen bridge and up the Wakehurst Parkway turning left at the first set of lights at Oxford Falls.

hawkeye's picture

Thanks for the strava link Brian. A good long flat section without lights and an uphill kick at the end with no dips. Perfect.

Trainerroad sounds interesting Alan, tying the workout to power.

I have a few Sufferfest vids but not that one. I reckon they are the best motivating trainer vids out there. Previously 30 minutes seemed like an eternity. With Sufferfest you can get a tough workout and almost wonder where the 2 hours went. Almost. Eye-wink

hawkeye's picture

Did the 20min test this morning.

It hurt! Especally the pinch at the end. Good workout.

james lamb's picture

Hello Riders

As of November I open my books to coaching on a full time
Basis.
Looking at the race calendar for 2015 there is a few
New stage races happening along with the usual big hitters.
My Coaching is very personalised and it can be from how often or what type of riding should I be doing? Or chops what should I use my office gym for ?

Specialising in fascia release and corrective exercise- for people suffering from injuries or lack of mobility I will have you moving better than you have in decades!

So use the next 3weeks to write down your cycling goals and make contact at [email protected] to enquire about being Coached.

Chops

Logan's picture

Knows his stuff, I am coached by him and you only have to look at the other athletes and their results to see how good he is. He coaches Jenny Fay, Steele Von Hoff, the Avanti Team etc.

BenB's picture

Guys, sent you a message re a beta testing opportuity that may be of interest.

Ben

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