You are hereForums / By Discipline / Mountain (off road) / MTB Gear / Getting the best from an indoor trainer?
Getting the best from an indoor trainer?
I've just started to work out on a trainer in the garage. Broke my wrist end of November and could be off the bike until March / April. I;ve set my self a goal though of coming out of the injury fitter than when I went in... as the alternative is sitting on the couch drinking beer and that's not going to be helpful.
I've also just fitted a cadence and speed sensor and am planning to use the Strava workout guides and Sufferfest videos as a start.
Question is how do others setup the trainer; i.e. the tension on the rear wheel; PSI, etc? I've converted an old rim with a skinny, semi slick and pumped it up to about 45 PSI. As far as tension I screw the roller until it just touches the rear wheel then give it another 2-3 turns. It's a cheap Aldi trainer so the remote resistance dial doesn't actually change the resistance.
I'm finding that I'm riding in the big ring up front (44 I think) and somewhere in the middle to bottom of a 9 cog cassette on the rear. Spinning at 75 RPM / 25 Km p/h
What I'm finding is that this is OK for the cardio although does't really work my legs; i.e. it's much easier than riding a flat fire trail.
Does this setup sound OK or should I dial up the tension to make it much harder on the legs? I'm conscious that Sufferfest is going to have me spinning at 90-100 RPM+ so also need t keep that in mind.
If you have any other tips for indoor training I'd also be really keen to hear them.
Daniel
- Login to post comments
- Bookmark & share
Depends on your trainer.
I had a cheapy and even at the highest tension(5) it was easy to spin it out. I got a more expensive Trax model and it has 10 levels of tension I have never been over 6 do most of my stuff at 2 or 3.
The other tip I'd give you is to grab some training vids to help relieve the boredom and get you motivated. With out them I find myself just spinning purposelessly
I highly recommend the Spinnervals series. Ride Strong and Lean and Mean form the fitness series are good introductions and can be used as a recovery session once you get fit 9Add more tension for a work out less for a recovery spin)
Or Up Hill Grind, Big Gear Strength or Have Mercy from the competition series are good high intensity workouts.
... from an engagement perspective are the Sufferfest videos. Great choice.
There are short, high intensity ones as well long endurance rides. When I went with Vera on the cruise earlier this year, they were a godsend and stopped me going mad among the sea of sedentary fat people that type of holiday seems to attract.
http://youtu.be/s0R7KPhOihs
I have Blender (1hr40), Extra Shot (20min race sim, no warmup), The Wretched (climbing), and recently acquired Revolver (15x1m intervals) and The Elements of Style (technique and core).
@danielschipper I have a wheel built up with road rim with a 135x10QR hub that will fit your bike and help you get more load. Unfortunately fitting a slick to a 26" rim will leave you undergeared.
Most mag trainers don't have enough resístance, and their resistance curve doesn't ramp up nearly enough.
After getting fed up with my magnetic unit I flogged it off on eBay for more than it cost (!) and went with a Kurt Kinetic Road Machine, which is a magnetic drive fluid resistance trainer with a big flywheel for realistic behaviour.
The magnets don't provide resistance, they "connect" the roller to the resistance unit while allowing the resistance unit to remain fully sealed. No possibility of leakage.
I think either Brian or Rob had a KK Rock'n'Roll trainer for sale recently at a very good price.
The only thing I need that is missing is a big-ass industrial fan for the warmer months.
Another option for realistic performance and a good enough load is a wind trainer, but they are notoriously noisy.
75 rpm is considered slow grinding. Increasing that to 90-100 will probably increase the resistance a fair bit.
Putting more force on the tire and running a lower pressure should also increase resistance further along with tire wear.
A long layoff is a good opportunity to spend ~12 weeks building base fitness. Basically, very slowly increase the lengths of your rides, keeping a nice easy pace.
I'm a bit obsessed with being able to produce max power at high rpm, and will regularly do an hour indoors averaging ~110 rpm. I find this helps me avoid knee issues.
As for keeping the boredom away... I use an iPad app "Seconds" to create my own workouts. For intense rides I'll just have some music. For longer easy rides I have a mac mini with movies, series etc.
Ideally I'll get a Wahoo kickr, but making indoor training too attractive might make me substitute that for road/mtb, and thats not a good thing.
I have a Kurt Kinetic Road Machine which is very good and like you broke my wrist earlier in the year I found it a real struggle to keep riding the turbo. If you can come out fitter than you started you will be doing well. The thought of doing 10 hours on the turbo a week is enough to send me to tears.
If you can get the Sufferfest videos then they are excellent. I ha e the elements of style video and a few others and they are good.
I might consider selling my road machine as I want to get a Kickr for winter. Let me know if your interested.
I'm proud to be one of those sedentary fat people you refer to. Helps me on every decline.
Has anyone tried rollers? I have a set. Tried riding on them for the first time yesterday.
Not for the faint of heart!
It didn't end well... lol
Have done rollers since I was a teen but from memory they were a much better core work out as you needed to keep the balance.
They were, however, far worse for the wall
Forgot to mention I only ride rollers.
Been riding them since I was 11 so no need for a wall
They can be a little light on the resistance front, but softening the tires helps. It also forces a higher cadence.
Riding them does require marginally more brain activity than being bolted to a trainer, especially when 'climbing' out the saddle or doing sprints. Does make it a bit more interesting to ride.
I'm thinking I'll have to sneak them inside when the rest of the family's out so I can sit inside a door frame to get started.
Shhhhh!
A doorway is the best place to learn.
Especially if people have to squeeze past you
I used to be really good on rollers. but tried again a few weeks ago for the first time in ages and had a bit of trouble. I just thought it would be like riding a bike...
Thanks for the feedback so far. Not being used to riding based on Cadence at all I was riding at around 70 / 75 and relatively low heart rate (135). I changed yesterday to riding 5 minutes at 85 then 5 minutes at 95 for 40 minutes then a final 5 mins at 100. Got the heart rate up and felt more in the legs.
Will try dropping the tyre pressure as fitness / technique increases.
AS noted the most effective cadence is around 95 (+ or - 5) for most people - but not all - there is some variation as in all things. But just thrashing the cranks at higher speed resulting in a higher heart rate does NOT mean you are getting better training for the time you put in. A better way is to establish your max heart rate, your resting heart rate and work out your training zones from there, then develop a program for you. And you can use power (FTP) if you use power meter or have conversion capacity.
To benefit the most you should set up a program for you (not just copy one from TrainerRoad.com, Strava or other source - note I use both but set up my own workouts (via TrainerRoads workout creator) for my requirements).
If you want to improve your aerobic fitness then it is thought that maximum aerobic improvement occurs at 85% of your VO2max (which is around 90% of your Max HR). So you need sessions set up to do this. If we do 10 hours training but only two really improve fitness then we are wasting 8 hours.
Some web sites:
Stationery Training tips and info:
http://www.cptips.com/stacyc.htm
http://triathlon.competitor.com/2010/12/training...
http://triathlonwarrior.com/indoor-cycling-using...
General training tips
http://www.cptips.com
www.cptips.com/xtocdet.htm
http://www.cptips.com/xtocdet.htm#trntips
See section 4 including the HR monitor usage and the stationery cycling section http://www.cptips.com/stacyc.htm .
Also see section 2 = training basics. http://www.cptips.com/trnoptn.htm
see also the DETRAINING section which states in part “Studies on maintenance of the benefits of aerobic training revealed that a 2/3 reduction in training frequency i.e. going from 6 days a week to 2 days a week (keeping the same maximal intensity for each individual workout) maintained aerobic gains. Thus you can cut a 60 minute, 6 per week program to similar 60 minute sessions 2 times a week and maintain your aerobic fitness level, BUT you CANNOT maintain a similar fitness level by cutting the intensity of the 60 minute session and keeping them at 6 times per week. If intensity is held constant, the frequency and duration of exercise required to maintain fitness are much less than the effort needed to attain that fitness level in the first place. “
Develop training program.
http://www.cycling-inform.com/cycling-base-train...
https://duckduckgo.com/l/?kh=-1&uddg=http%3A%2F%... [NOTE this downloads a PDF on creating your own training program – it for roadies but principles apply to MTB riders.]
Lactate threshold info: (but recent research questions some of this info) http://www.sport-fitness-advisor.com/lactate-thr...
Lactate training: http://www.sport-fitness-advisor.com/lactate-thr...
There is heaps more on the web, some unfortunately is out of date and beware the 'commercial' sites
HTH -
PS: Arguably the best estimator of max Hr is https://www.ntnu.edu/cerg/hrmax
PPS: but I know you want more - so http://www.brianmac.co.uk/maxhr.htm
Hi Daniel,
Plenty of people on here much more qualified than me to talk about training techniques, but I can talk about my experience with the Aldi trainer. I bought one early 2014 with the aim of attaching an old roadie to it and improving my fitness for the MTB, especially during winter. It is my first and so far, only trainer. Bought it because it was cheap and if it never got used then no great loss. If it did get used I'd upgrade to something better in the future. I use it only occasionally as I ended up buying a reasonable roadie/tourer rather than an old clunker and much prefer to go for a road ride whenever the MTB is not an option.
I realise that you have a broken wrist, hence the desire to use the trainer. I mention the fact that I only use my Aldi trainer occasionally as a warning that what seems like a bargain isn't really a bargain if it never gets used. Take advantage of the vast experience and wisdom on this forum to source the best trainer you can afford and spend your stationary time in as productive a manner as possible.
If you want to keep reading then here is a summary of my experience with my Aldi trainer:
- Steel A frame seems reasonably well built for the price so no concerns about it falling apart at least,
- plastic riser block for the front wheel is rather flimsy and mine has cracked already, although I am 100kgs so heavier than a lot of riders,
- I don't think the riser block is high enough. With a spirit level on the seat I found the bike to be in a nose down position relative to having both wheels on a level floor. I now use 3x 7mm thick squares of plywood underneath the riser to adjust the front wheel height,
- It is VERY noisy,
- Resistance settings were poorly adjusted out of the box so it stopped moving the spinning disc closer to the magnets at about level 4 and then started moving the disc away again meaning there was less resistance at level 5, 6 & 7 than at level 4,
- After adjusting the resistance settings where the cable joins the magnet housing on the A frame it now increases resistance in a linear fashion from level 1 through to level 7,
- Still not a great deal of resistance, but if you search the interwebs there are videos and instructions on how to mod a cheap magnetic trainer by adding neodymium magnets to get the desired level of resistance,
- The flywheel is far too light so it does not feel anything like riding on the road,
- I run my road tyres at about 5-10 psi below normal road pressures, mainly because that's where they'll be if it's been a week or so since I last rode the bike and I can't be arsed pumping the tyres for a trainer session. I'd care more if the trainer had a better 'feel',
- I tighten the roller against the tyre until there is no slip when I yank on the wheel with my hand. Maybe tighten the roller a bit more for some extra resistance if you like, but be aware that it is possible to put too much pressure on the tyre and ultimately on the wheel. Just like it's possible to destroy a car's drivetrain on a dynamometer if you create too much resistance, I'm sure you could break a wheel, chain or cog if you're careless.......... assuming you could still turn the pedals,
- Re comment above about it being noisy, I believe this is a result of the teeny weeny diameter of the roller and the resulting high RPM of the roller, disc and flywheel for a given wheel 'speed'.
- After much research on the interwebs I found a USA made magnetic trainer that claims to be very quiet and all video and audio evidence suggests that it is. Its secret seems to be a roller with a large diameter. Something more akin to the roller on trailer for a large boat than the pencil-thin roller on the Aldi trainer. It also happens to have a massive flywheel for a better 'feel'. Larger diameter roller = lower RPM for given wheel 'speed' relative to a smaller diameter roller. The magnetic resistance does not vary as a result of wheel or roller RPM so using a larger diameter roller should not affect any aspect of the trainer other than reducing noise and lowering wear and tear on moving parts and your rear tyre,
- The plastic cover around the moving parts on the Aldi trainer does not lend itself to simple modifications. Therefore, while I do like to tinker, I will probably end up buying a better trainer before I get around to attempting any mods to something I bought from Aldi for $59.
FWIW, I have recently taken up trail running (currently more often walking, stumbling and occasionally jogging) to improve my fitness for the MTB with the added bonus of keeping me out on the local fire trails more often. Win, win!
It also satisfies the need to bugger off on my own and clear my head from time to time to retain what is left of my sanity. I find running off road has the same effect as riding off road. It is brilliant at focusing the mind on the next X metres of whatever terrain lies ahead of you as it is often imperative for your survival. I find that when I'm on the trainer I just focus like a laser on whatever has given me the shits that day as there is nothing to distract me and the pain of tyring to pedal a reasonable cadence while going nowhere makes me think bad thoughts. Maybe it's time for some Sufferfest videos
Hope this helps.
Thanks for all the great info. Will try getting the HR up around the 160 mark on the next session and hold it there for a while. Will let you all know how I go after a few weeks.
Schedule for a week could look like below - but vary to suit so you don't get bored, or let it become a chore. It assumes you using HR, if using power then use the percentage of FTP – but this may take you higher in the HR range. Always do a warmup before you hit the target HR or power figure of about 5 to 10 minutes and a cool down of 4 to 5 mins at end.
# Day 1 PPAR (see * below) in morning, (no fuel, before breakfast, no carb loading previous day), 55min includes warm up, exercise @ 70-75% maxHR then a HIIT** session in the evening of 20 to 35 min. Total hours 1.5hrs
# Day 2 Endurance, 90mins to 120mins pm @ 70 to 75%
# Day 3 Strength session 60mins am or pm. Most of ride at endurance pace but add high gear intervals of about 2 to 5 mins. 6 to 8 intervals in high gear @ 70 cadence.
# Day 4 Rest
# Day 5 PPAR in morning, 55min includes warm up, exercise @ 70-75%. Then a HIIT sesion in the evening of 35 min. Total hours 1.5hrs
# Day 6 Free ride - your choice maybe recovery of up to 1hr 30min (70% max HR)
# Day 7 Endurance +90mins to 120mins pm @ 80 to 85% - maybe some recovery paced minutes in the session - maybe a sufferfest type exercise?
# or add one more rest day (day 6?).
Do this for two or three weeks, not to be slavishly followed but vary if you need to. Then have an adaptation week of doing nothing but 2 or 3 gentle sessions (70% maxHR). Modify program intensity for following week based on your level of fitness – don't overdo it and become fatigued.
CAUTION: this can be strenuous if not fit – so start low and build and do it at your own risk. If muscles ache too much reduce the load/intensity. Stop if pain continues and seek medical advice!!
Stretches 2 or 3 days a week and immediately post ride, especially hammies - cycling can shorten them. Do a body workout 2 to 3 times a week or whatever your Physio says you can do with what's broken/injured. Static stretching BEFORE exercise can weaken muscles and increase injury proneness – if you must stretch first use dynamic not static stretching - but include a warm up on the trainer before hitting the targets.
Why not just use Sufferfest exercises? – whats the evidence they are the best form of 'training' for you? Yes they test you – but is the idea to build fitness for your sport or just do an exercise? Is the Sufferfest and similar exercises the best way of using your training time for you?
*PPAR Delta – this is contentious as it is an attempt to activate PPAR (or AMPK) normally by exercising when glycogen depleted – ie low carb exercise. The evidence that it actually works is small and inconsistent, but the evidence that PPAR increases endurance appears to be accepted, that is events over 3 hours duration. The concept is to activate genes in the muscles to burn fat, possibly using this as a fuel rather than stored energy from carbohydrates producing more endurance. http://www.hhmi.org/biointeractive/ppar-delta-ac.... Essentially it is proposed that there are two ways of increasing PPAR (or more correctly AMPK). A) high intensity training increases AMPK more than low intensity; B) exercising in a carbohydrate depleted state as carb or carb supplements could decrease AMPK activation. As stated this is contentious so up to you if you decide to use
**HIIT http://jp.physoc.org/content/575/3/901.short one of many
http://sportsmedicine.about.com/od/Exercise-Meta... and http://www.ideafit.com/fitness-library/hiit-vs-c...
PS if you not using videos get a good play list for the ST - for warming up I suggest Donna Summers "Love to love you baby" not the 16 minute version though!
and doing HIIT to Fat Boy Slim's "Right Here, Right Now" - 
not a fan of the sufferfest videos.
have a look at the spinervals videos,the mtb one is good and there's a heap of others