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Silly bike laws! What's the impact to MTB?


danielschipper's picture

By danielschipper - Posted on 22 December 2015

If you have't seen Duncan Gay's latest bright idea read here.

http://www.smh.com.au/nsw/cyclists-forced-to-car...

What's the impact for MTB though? Many of us ride on public roads to get to trails or connect rails together. I don;t think any of us would ever head out on on MTB ride without a helmet so that should;t be a problem.

What about pure fire trail rides though... or even events that use management trail?

What do you think about carrying photo ID at all times? Good practice or just nanny state gone mad?

VTSS350's picture

No issue with most of it from me but not a fan of the photo ID law. I head out for a quick spin of my local trails with nothing more than my bike and a bottle. I am on the road for a couple of Ks before I get to the trails, having to carry ID will just be a pain in the ass!

Brian's picture

While I'm okay with the changes I believe helmets shouldn't be compulsory. I always carry photo id so if something goes wrong i can be identified but I don't think it should be compulsory. They're just adding more road blocks to stop people riding.

Tom M's picture

The 1 metre rule for the roadies seems like a good idea, hopefully it's enforced.

Always use a helmet so non issue.

I carry id on longer rides but the quick local rides it's just bottle and go.

Lach's picture

... particularly a pita where the sensors don't pick up a bicycle and there's no cars around to trigger the light change. What do you do?

Brian's picture

Exactly, when I head out at 5am i have to go through red lights near my place as there generally isn't any cars around to trigger the lights

Tristania's picture

I'll write a better article about my analysis of the situation about red lights and triggering once I've had a chance to think about it in better detail

From reading the comments section of that article, I'm just left incredulous at how much people want to discriminate against us and label me a bad person simply because I ride a bike. The number of selfish, ignorant and "The road revolves around me" drivers that apparently live in this city is just appalling, from reading their comments. The fact that we have to share the (poorly built) roads with these dickheads is a lot more dangerous than any of the listed "crimes" that we'll apparently get ripped up for.

DudeistPriest's picture

Chances are there won't be any Police around to book you either, but if you are really worried about it, pop up on he footpath and press the waiting to walk button.

hank's picture

The meter rule is great, but NSW couldn't ignore the evidence from the other states. It's like it pains Duncan Gay (ex employed by the trucking industry) so much to implement sensible measures to protect cyclists that he needed to square the ledger by these ridiculous extended fines.

Write to the Minister for Ripping up Cyclepaths here

https://www.nsw.gov.au/contact-minister-roads-ma...

Captain Chunder's picture

The fines are only relevant if you break the law, as far as I am concerned they can double them again - I stop at red lights and always wear a helmet - even when I am riding at walking pace with the kids - from memory a TDF rider cracked his skull and died when he fell off going up a hill at les the 15km/h

As for photo ID - why are people getting worried about it - whether you are doing a short ride or a long ride - how much does your drivers license weigh and why wouldn't you be carrying ID - a serious crash could happen in the first or last km you ride. Standard practice for me is to carry my drivers license, a credit card and a ICE card (In Case of Emergency - with a phone number - no point having it in your phone as a first responder wont be able to unlock your phone when you are unconscious) on every ride.

The 1m rule - great idea - it also helps if all of us "nice" cyclists are overly friendly to drivers - a simple wave to the car goes along way. Sure there are plenty of DHead drivers out there but if everyone started to be overly friendly change will happen.

CC

hawkeye's picture

The old "if you're not breaking the law you have nothing to fear" argument.

All very well *if* the law is always just and fair.

Clearly the rest of the world has a different view on that with regard to our obsession with making the use of plastic hats while cycling compulsory.

Brian's picture
hawkeye's picture

An epidemiologist (those people who look into whole of population outcomes of treatment and health policy) I struck up a conversation with while out on the trail a couple of weekends ago has an interesting take on our obsession with helmets.

He was in favour of helmets, but called the compulsory aspect "an unjustified and unethical imposition on a healthy activity".

In plain english, the benefit of saving a few lives from head injury is far outweighed by the unhealthy outcomes for the population as a whole.

... something to bear in mind when listening to brain surgeons spout forth their narrow views on helmets.

wilso_ac's picture

Here is a hot tip for iPhone users.

You can set up your phone to allow calls to ICE contacts without needing to unlock the phone.

In the 'Health' app, go into 'Medical ID' and enter some information about yourself, here you can add phone numbers for your Next Of Kin or ICE contacts.

When your phone is locked and you swipe to unlock you will see 'emergency' on the bottom left of screen, the 000 dialer comes up but if you look on the bottom left again *Medial ID is there. Once selected, first responders will be able to call your NOK!!!

You can also teach your kids where it is so they can call a short list of people without having access to your entire phone.

I'm sure there is a similar feature in Android but I cant help you with that.

On the subject of carrying ID, I always carry a license, credit card and phone because it will get me out of trouble on every occasion, it will also make it a whole lot easier in an emergency if you need assistance from emergency services.

spicko's picture

it's all very silly

Studies have found that helmets give a false sense of security for both rider and drives and might actually increase accidents. No country with extensive bike usage has such stupid law.

I truly hate when ppl say 'it doesn't affect me so it is ok' . It is not about being on the wrong side of the law or not but the perception that it gives to society when cyclists are those individuals that need additional rules because they are more likely to break them. These fines provide a tacit message to motorists saying that cyclists are more likely to be on the wrong and need to be controlled.
Carrying ID when on a bike! FFS WTF is wrong with politicians? Doesn't common sense exist in that world?

ahein's picture

1 metre rule is a good idea when riding on the road and I am behind always wearing a helmet as you never know what can happen even at the slowest speeds.

From thinking about it carrying ID is probably not the worst idea ever and something I should probably do on the mountain bike in case something happens.

I agree with others around red lights that sensors etc need to be adjusedt for riders if we are going to be fined at the same rate as cars without getting the same privileges.

In the end though people should take responsibility for their own actions and we could get rid of a lot of this nanny state thinking!!!!!

obmal's picture

Not really going to change the way I ride, I will still roll through some red lights after stopping and waiting waiting.. I will still ride with just the usual spares/phone/cash in my pocket or MTB backpack.

But it will be interesting to see how/if they enforce the new safe passing law along places like the Wakehurst parkway where most cars currently pass (and debatable.. even safely) within the 1.5M required distance as the road is too narrow to have single opposing lanes of approaching traffic running at 80kph and a lawfully pass a bike travelling on the shoulder (left of the fog line)..

I think as controversial as these rules/fines maybe, at the very least they do raise the issues of Cyclist v Car and brings up the topic for debate of cyclists rights to be on the road.. a slither of education.. this is a good thing to have.

StanTheMan's picture

peeps have a problem carrying ID?

as far as the helmet goes. Ive never personally put too much effort into researching this subject. But I landed on my head once at serious pace. Split the helmet.I recon it saved serious damage to my skull.In my books....I wouldn't ride without one.

seriously we need to worry about real things. People are being chased away from their homes, being shot at for no good reason.....ohhh wait there is reason. Its about massive egos having influence in different parts of the world......

Brian's picture
obmal's picture

I think peeps have an issue with being told that they must carry their papers.. travelling without your papers is verbotten and punishable by "X" penalty?

Paldini's picture

Is the government trying to get more people out of their cars and onto bikes? They should be for reasons stated above. I don't think the 1m rule will make any real difference to the way people drive- it is difficult to tell how much clearance you are providing when driving in a busy area. Most folk are pretty good and the dick heads will continue to be so because it is un enforceable.

I always wear a helmet when cycling to work and on my mtb but don't when I'm cycling slowly with my kids or nipping to the shop for milk. I can slip and crack my skull running but I don't wear helmet. Individuals should manage their own risk with out it being legislated.

ID carrying- again good practice but nanny state to enforce it.

pancakes's picture

Duncan gay is a f*%#tard.

While the 1 metre rule is excellent it is unlikely to be realically enforced. While I have a lot of respect for our boys and girls in blue I doubt they are vested with any greater ability to judge what a metre is than any other sample of the population.

Some other measures are plainly stupid.

Anyone who has travelled to pretty much any other country will have seen plenty of people riding around sans skid lid. And surviving. Thriving even.

If I am going to be required to wait at a red light until it changes then surely there has to be a way for said system to recognise my presence and adjust accordingly.

While the holding on to a moving vehicle fine (my God, the TDF vision must give these pencil necks coniptions...) may be sensible to a reasonable person, much like the fail to stop at a pedestrian crossing, do we really need a photo id law? Really?

Puh-leez...I'm not going to bother with that one. Ever. I'll take my chances on knowing my licence number and date of issue.

When exactly is the next state election? This, coming on the back of Baird's decision to ignore the IPART recommendations for the amalgamation of Pittwater, Warringah and Manly and come up with his own politically expedient scenario of splitting Warringah has left me with the distinct impression this lot is no better than NSW Labour.

Remember Keneally, Tripodi, Sir Lunch a lot, Obeid...

Merry Christmas

hawkeye's picture

The evidence coming in from the other states that have implemented it is pretty clear. Despite the best efforts of the Constabulary to ignore and not enforce it, it has had a noticeable effect on improving the room given to cyclists on the road.

As such, Duncan the Bumpkin has been unable to ignore it.

But he's a wily old coot and has used seized the opportunity to slip in a poison pill... "If I'm going to have to give you that, f**k you, you can take this as well. See how you like that!"

I'll be writing to Mike Baird and Brad Hazzard giving them my views and analysis of the consequences of this poorly considered, bias-fuelled travesty.

This is nothing more than scapegoating cyclists for the State's failure to properly provide safe infrastructure for vulnerable road users.

MarkkyMarkk's picture

Here's my email to Mike Baird outlining my concerns

So the massively increased fines ($71 to $319) for not wearing a helmet is an easy thing for the police to enforce, since you're an easy target noodling around on your bicycle with your bare head enjoying the breeze & sun. Then they slap another $106 fine on you if you don't happen to have ID on you. That's an incredulous $425 for just casually popping down to the shops & not causing any undue risk or danger to anybody.
Meanwhile, the odds of the police swooping in on the driver who dangerously buzzed you during the fraction of a second they're committing the infraction are virtually nil, and even if they are caught & fined it's only a measly $319 fine for causing a very real life threatening situation.

Sounds like a pretty shitty deal to me. Thanks NSW Government, making cycling even more marginalized & difficult in one of the already worst places in the world to be a cyclist.
How can a cyclist feel safe & secure on the roads when the NSW Government itself is clearly ostracizing us with these ridiculous laws?

Reverse this atrocious decision now, and sack that clueless Transport Minister Duncan Gay.

MC's picture

The thing that gets me in all of this is it's just not a solution to anything. The 1m rule I guess is a step forward for the idiots out there who don't give at least that much already, but with the same fine for now not wearing a helmet?

How many deaths were there last year from people not wearing helmets? Anyone got a stat?

Am I seriously expected to wear a helmet to go for a lap around the lagoon with the kids, or along the beach path? Soon we'll need helmets just to walk out the front door. It's just absurd, nanny state madness.

Where's the forward thinking? They should be viewing cycling as an extraordinarily powerful resource to get people out of cars and congestion off the roads rather than spend billions on another motorway to clog. If you build it they will come!

hawkeye's picture
Where's the forward thinking? They should be viewing cycling as an extraordinarily powerful resource to get people out of cars and congestion off the roads rather than spend billions on another motorway to clog. If you build it they will come!

The Roads Minister is a self-confessed car and motor racing nut. He LOVES cars. Think Toad of Toad Hall if you've ever read Wind in the Willows.

He doesn't want less cars. He wants more cars.

Simon's picture

After visiting a developing nation....

They solved the car problem but not having enough car parks in the city. People don't drive them unless they have somewhere to park them. Their shopping centre also had mostly motorcycle parking and a delivery service.

Here in Australia most of our planning requirements ensure that certain new commericial and public buildings have a minimum number of car spots before they can be approved.

It would make sense to start reducing car park availability in the city to reduce congestion which would leave a very good functioning road network. I don't believe new roads create demand. Its the car parks at the other end.

I personally find our city's road network to be brilliant on a scooter. Don't get why a sole occupant would drive a car here.

Slowpup's picture

Went to Cremorne Junction, for the first time in many years, on Friday night. I was surprised to find that, for 100 m or so, one side of Parraween St is almost exclusively reserved for motorcycle parking.

Venturing far from the safe confines of the lower north shore, I also saw Duncan's overpass to/from nowhere yesterday. !...?....#@$%??

I suspect that there is something in the water cooler on the green seat side of Macquarie st........ how a supposedly sensible organisation morphs into what resembles a rabble of apparently inept and compromised individuals, astounds.

DudeistPriest's picture

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