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to cleat or not to cleat??
I’m curious about who uses cleats or not and why?
Coming from a road biking background I have continued to use cleats with my mountain bike but have found that whenever I have a stack the cleats have either made it worse or have been part of the cause. Having said that I feel that there are definite benefits such as better pedal grip, transfer of power ..
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I use flats 95% of the time for downhill, freeride, more technical/aggressive/faster stuff, and the other 5% of long distance XC/enduro stuff I'm clipped in.
Also coming from a road bike back ground I use cleats all the time. I have mine set on the lowest setting to allow for quick release. Using the cleats makes me feel more in contact with bike & helps with the climbs. Check out some of the platform type pedals with inbuilt cleats you can have the best of both worlds with one pedal.
I've only used platforms once and took a nice gash out the back of my leg.
So it's cleats for me.
I feel more in control and that my feet are less likely to slip.
It's all about the proper gear though.
Sure if you wear ordinary trainers your feet are likely to slip. Flat soled skate shoes are much better at gripping, even better are bike specific shoes that feature super grippy rubber on the soles. I use these and my feet stick like glue.
I'm completely with you Kevin... finding that cleats (or clips or whatever) cause you some greif on the trails, and if you can't get out of them in time, cause, or make accidents worse. Like Bruce has said though, keeping them loose for a quick release is a good plan. Also make sure they are clean and well lubricated.
That said, I've seen too many pedals in the shin to make riding without them (or should this be shin pads?) an option. Also, I find it helps when jumping over stuff (lifting the back end of the bike) and if you are committed on technical sections, being clipped in and able to get more power with no fear of slipping is the way to go.
I'm no expert here of course - talk to some that are and they will tell you being clipped is essential. In fact, I've seen guys atop scary looking technical descents cursing that they can't get locked in quick enough as they set off - places where I am specifically not clipped in in case a quick bail is needed!
FWIW, I've got these Coda pedals that are large enough to ride without clips if you forget your cycle shoes (doh!) but still a lot smaller than full platforms.
do you use? Are they double sided or do you swap pedals depending on what sort of trail you are going to?
Cheers
Stuart
I use these Bilt Flatties, a sealed bearing double sided pedal. It's concaved too, so the concave and the pins make it super grippy.
You can get them here: http://www.dhdirect.com.au/
He he. Well, not that I know.
To make a good arguement as far as riding performance goes, ever seen a professional MTB rider not using clip pedals? Something to remember.
But, for me, I use just normal flat non-clip pedals and find I am able to ride around technical stuff (which is my preference) without any problems of grip / purchase / power. You get used to it. On the contrary to clips, I can bail easily if my mind bites off more than my riding sklz can chew. It gives me peace of mind - which, I think, is important on some of the stuff we do. Plus, you can start, stop, start again much easier.
BTW, to avoid slapping juicy gouges out of my shins, I use full knee-shin length Fox armour on my legs. Also, I use sneakers that are designed like hiking shoes, that have large, knobbly rudder soles which grip my flat pedals, also like glue. No grip issues here!!
In my experience, which is limited compared to some others present, it all comes down to your own personal preference. This works for me, and that is all that matters. Why not buy some of both and try them out?
my experience of the pedal dilema is ive been using spd's for about 10 years..the main reason ive not gone platform is bunny hopping!..i simply could not get any real air at all without them..and i need to be able to hop! but upon reviewing alot of stuff including the how too on this site someone posted somewhere, and a bit of practise, i can now, and really, i feel so much more free on platforms, downhilling, jumping, cornering is much better. even uphilling is easier cause ur less concerned going super slow cause its easy to bail out..less power on the one hand too, but i think u also make up for it a bit in ur down-stroke cause u tend to apply less power naturally because u know u have the up-motion as well on clipless....maybe its just me, but thats what i think imho!
You couldn't have said it better little-ditty, I use flats and learning had a few chopped up shins. However once i got used to the pedals i didnt have any problems. I do wear flat soled shoes and they definately have heaps more grip. Also the studs in my pedals are quite big which means that they dig in better.
You are right that it does come down to personal preference and pedal choice though. Flats all the way. FOR ME.
see ya,
Tim
Well said,
It is my preference, tooooooo, normal flat non-clip pedals,
after I did buy both and and try'd them out!!!
Bernd
i'm pretty new to mountain biking and converted to clip ins about two month agos. great on the long distance, cross crountry tracks. I really struggled to unclip in time on some tough sections or whenever trying to go uphill but suddenly coming to a dead stop. This occassionaly resulted in a nasty and embarrasing crash landing.
almost gave up but decided to give it one more go and have not looked back. sometimes i keep my left foor unclipped if I'm nervous as i seem to struggle unclipping on the left whereas right is fine
but i do find that i can ride a little quicker clipped in ... and I don't loose grip on bumpy sections
So is there a middle distance here? Are there pedals with clips one side and platforms the other, and at the same time are there shoes which work well both on both sides? Is it properly fiddly trying to clip in to single sided pedals? Just thinking, for example at Manly dam I'd like clips for heartbreak hill, but not for some of the lumpier descents!
How long does it take to get used to them? I'm thinking I might start commuting in clips before I take them to the trails.
First time I cycled on the road in clips they were too tight so didn't get out in time at some lights and fell over <:o) Very embarrassing and probably quiet dangerous!
I've never liked the look of these single sided jobs with cleat one side, flat the other - I mean, since when can anyone ever tell which way up the pedal is easily? But haven't actually tried - has anyone?
As I was saying before, you can ride with the set I have not clipped. Even if you have clips on the base of your shoes you just have to have your foot positioned slightly forward on the 'platform' so as to not engage the clips. Kindof works, but it really is better to be 'in' for me, 'cos in the 'out' position slipping off is a possibility which just won't happen while 'in' of course.
clipped in on the road is great. i think in hindsight, i would have practiced the tough (rocky and drop offs) unclipped and get comfortable with the track. most of the time i fell was when I decided to chicken out by braking hard and not unclipping in time.
as for only clipping one side, i do it if i'm not sure whether i might stack it. it feels ok to me. when you buy the pedals, they normally come with this plastic surface which you can use like a dual pedal. (little slippery) which is why i don't use them
took me about 4 falls and now I feel ok with them (touch wood) .... was the reason i scratched my new bike!!! so i decided not going to give in now and i think i fell because i hesitated in tight sections
you can also practice leaning against a wall clipping in and out
and make sure you adjust the tension. big difference!!!
with the one side unclipped, the pedals aren't different. i just keep my feet slightly in front so it doesn't clip in. i can still pedal ok, might be hard if you have big feet
and it's only a mental thing for me. so i don't need to worry on the tough sections
ultimately whatever yo ufind most comfortable
Sam Hill, Nathan Rennie, Chris Kovarick...
Rambling follows...
I'm a big fan of clipless pedals in general. The major advantages that I see for MTBing are:
- smoother power output (less chance of losing traction up sketchy hills)
- better overall control. I don't lift off the pedals over bumpy ground, which gives me a lot more confidence - I can just bomb down hills and so long as the front wheel is reasonably straight, the rear is free to bounce around anywhere. (I ride a hardtail, which exacerbates this particular problem). Similarly, I can unweight the rear wheel or lift it off the ground altogether without worrying about my feet lifting off the pedals.
This suits my riding style; I tend to gain a lot of time on technical uphills and lose it on descents.
I do find that there's a lot more 'commitment' necessary for technical sections. You can't step off the pedal at a moment's notice. I think that this is more a mental challenge than anything else; with practice, I can unclip and put a foot down pretty quickly (usually less time than it takes to topple over).
Starting on hills is a bit trickier with pure clipless (rather than a clipless/flat combination pedal). It's difficult to get enough speed so that you stay upright long enough to get the second foot in. This is largely practice, though.
I'm not a big fan of SPDs. They 'encourage' (twist) your foot to be perfectly aligned with the pedal, which hurts my knees. I occasionally come out of them just pulling on the pedal (unless I crank up the tension, which hurts my knees more). They need to be lubricated, and that makes them pick up more gunk from the trail. And when they are gunky (or dusty, or muddy), they don't clip in reliably.
I didn't realise any of these problems until I moved to SPD-SLs on my road bike. SPD-SL's are single-sided road pedals which use a plastic cleat. They float freely - no spring tension like SPDs - and the plastic-on-plastic mechanism means no lubrication. (I dare say they're more reliable in mud than SPDs). Clipping in is trickier because it's single-sided, so you have to tip the pedal the right way up with your toe, then slide your foot in. This takes a practice, and plenty of experienced roadies struggle anyway. This works out similarly to having single-sided MTB pedals (platform one side, cleat the other) - you need to tip it the right way up before you can pedal.
So, after all of that, I'm using Time ATACs on my mountain bike. They have zero-tension float, like the SPD-SL, and they use brass cleats which don't have to be lubricated. (They do wear quite rapidly, however). They're pretty good in mud and dust. The clip-in mechanism is like the SPD-SL too, in that you need fairly precise alignment between your foot and the pedal; it's more of a "toe-in, then step" motion, while SPDs let you get away with just "step".
I haven't tried Eggbeaters yet; they look to be quite similar in design except that the pedal should eliminate mud faster. But realistically, I don't have much trouble with mud on the pedal; mud underneath the cleat is what causes me problems.
I'm a fan of Eggbeaters.
I used road pedals for many years (look pedals) the one-sided nature of these makes these very hard to clip into. I have used Shimano SPD's for a few years and found them to have too many bits and pieces.
I actually have two sets of eggbeaters one for the road bike (Giant OCR Compact road 04) and one for the MTB, they do not have a platform. They are the cleanest set of pedals I have used they shed mud and dirt very easily and they are lighter then most pedals. Being four sided clipping into them is very easy. I'm not sure on the longetivity but only time will tell.
Andrew
I've only ever used SPD's, so once I got over the first few 'Crap I've stopped and I can't get my foot free and now I'm falling over!' stacks, I become so used to them that I don't even notice whenever I am pulling my foot free.
And I've had plenty of practice making sure that I release my foot during a stack.(Pity this wasn't an Olympic event, I might have gotten a medal).
This comment has been moved here.
Flat pedals + FiveTens = Flat pedal cleat hybrid > Cleats > Flats.
Ive never used cleats, main reason i think is because of the 'coming off',not being able to uncleat quick enuff or being tangled up with ya bike.Getting a new bike soon(giant reign 1), would it pay to start getting used to using cleats?..advantages? disadvantages?..i actually told the guy to swap the pedals for flatties, only cause thats what im used to..and i didnt even have to ask, he automatically thought i would want to??
Cliping out
Bretto, I can get my foot off faster/easier when using clipless pedals than I can when using a quality shoe/flat pedal combo (Five10/Shimano DHX) so the usual worry about not being able to unclip fast enough is a red hearing. When you need to get your foot down (falling or cornering) it's natural to twist and your foot comes off. With a flat pedal with grippy shoes you need to lift your foot first...
Advantages:
- More efficiency as you can pedal in a full circle not just stomp down 1/4 of a circle.
- This leads to less bob on a dual suspension bike
- better control, Your are attached to the bike.
- Your foot is in the right position all the time, no need to worry about it bouncing around and having to readjust it's placement on the pedal
Disadvantages:
- Illegal to use them in Trials competition
- Not much good for when trying to perform foot off tricks while dirt jumping
- Need to wear specific shoes
As for style.... Who ever asked about the five10s, No you can't just screw a cleat into them but there are shoes that offer you more street cred such as the 661 Launch or shimano DX (MP56L or MP66)
You mean these?
http://www.torpedo7.com.au/products/66SSMN6LS
T7 only have couple sizes left by the looks. Take a look at Jenson... even if you don't order something like this from O/S (and let's face it, shoes are just one of the things you should be trying on so are best sourced from your LBS) they have good selection to look at, all these say have SPD compatible soles (which in effect means you can fit any cleat):
http://www.jensonusa.com/store/product/SH411B03-...
http://www.jensonusa.com/store/product/SH310B02-...
http://www.jensonusa.com/store/product/SH402B06-...
http://www.jensonusa.com/store/product/SH402B07-...
http://www.jensonusa.com/store/product/SH500B01-...
Specialized don't make the pair I have any more, but these are the closest they have:
http://www.specialized.com/bc/SBCEqProduct.jsp?s...
Yerch, nasty girlie colour
One thing I find much better with the solid moulded sole variety (non-trainer looking type - ie. none of the above) is durability. I found that the rubber sole on the above type Specialized are glued to a thinner plastic base which the cleats bolt to. You can see the SPD cover on the link for example. Anyhow, see on the inner part of the foot - there's not much rubber on that side - and it came unstuck on both pairs I had. Means the sole just breaks away instead of gripping when walking, plus rocks and sand get into the shoe there - not so good!
The only thing I can add, is the hybrid pedals (flat one side, clip the other) have the nick name of 'death-traps'. Mainly I think because you are looking down trying to figure out where to put your feet and not looking out for that cliffffffffffaaaaagghhhh
What I was trying to say is that if you have a decent set of flats and five 10s it feels like cleats. only that you can't up pedal. To readjust your feet on the pedals you actually have to lift off and then put the foot back down again, you can't slide.
i am still not convinced of the cleats and i have been struggling for months now - i agree with KD and i do the same thing with one foot out when i worry but now i am so busy looking at things i THINK will cause me problems i fall of so much more - in fact i have lost lots of confidence - espeically at bantry bay and red hill...
i know, you all say they will only get better but honestly its horrible at the moment
love them on the road and terrey hills though!
since you've had them? Less than Gazza, almost?
Christine!! You'll get used to them. You'll love them on long rides!
I admit that it's harder on technical stuff to get used to cleats but you can use them to your advantage. for example the steps at the dam should be easier as there is more of the pedal stroke available to create more power. You can bunny hop the bike heaps easier! just imagine if you're going round a switch back and need to lift the back wheel up and swing it around so the front wheel is pointing better!
Just remember to twist your feet out if you are going to stack!
Lorrie
You know very well I ride twice a week normally except the last few weeks due to the weather! (unlike George who has been very hit and miss!!) Manly Dam was one of my favourite rides and now I dread it!!
Lorrie, everyone keeps telling me to stick them out but I am so fed up with not looking forward to riding, not to mention my bottom which looks like camouflage pants from the army and totally bruised legs...
Can anyone tell I didn’t have the best weekend?
Tell us how you really feel...
Have you tried Duck Holes and Centre with them on? You want to gradually build up to MD with cleats on... Besides MD has been too wet anyway... THills is where it's at!
Christine, how could you not have a great weekend with the come from behind effort by the boys on Friday night!
I have been using cleats for over a year now and apart from the short learning process with lots of bruises (that was me learning to ride a MTB not just the Cleats) I have had not too many problems.
That was until last weekend. I was riding up a steep little pinch of a climb and without realising one of the screws holding the cleat to the shoe fell off, leaving me unable to unclip and put my foot down (just couldn't make the top). Resulting in a bruised swollen elbow and left knee.
Amazing how one of the tiniest screws can stuff things up so well.
on the cleats is no fun - I now carry a spare cleat with screws after the very same thing.
Christine, its all about the perseverance - and sad to say the type of cleat you use. Since I upgraded to XTR and kiwigirl to Deore LX absolutely no problems - they are so easy to get in and out of..... positive action and never clog with mud (so far anyhoo)
keep at it....
----------------------------------------------
if at first you don't succeed, try not to look astonished.
Of course I have! I have ridden with the silly things since February...
Aaaaah! but you wouldn’t know that since I have hardly ridden with YOU as you have turned to The Dark Side with The Others and been scumming it so much!!!
I will persevere but they aren’t all you guys crack them up to be – yet!
I must be an exceptionally slow learner...
Paul – that was the most stressful Friday night I have had in ages – we were lucky to have anyone left!!! Need major recoveries before this Saturday...
Maybe loosen the pedals off a bit so it's easier to get out, and definitely check the cleats are tight. If it's eggbeaters you have all you can do is make sure the cleats are fitted the right way for easy unclip and lube the pedals helps with any brand. Good Luck, they are worth it.
John
really loose - Peter suggested i change my pedals so I am looking at that now...
i say that if you feel you have given them a fair chance and still dont like them, then change back to flats (or whatever you had on) and get back to enjoying riding. Your not racing or anything so if you are a tad slower then its not going to matter, have fun and enjoy riding rather than thinking about every obstacle because you fear of not unclipping.
Don
with Don
Leave them on for road or TH epics
And 3 minutes with a pedal spanner for when you ride terrain
The benefits aren't worth it if it stops you enjoying your riding
But the word is that camo bums are in this season
You trendsetter you
Amen!
Hey Kiwiboy, that is a top tip! You have prompted me to pull an old cleat + screws from the toolkit and stash in the little box of goodies[1] that lives in the backpack.
Cheers!
[1] Small puncture repair kit + powerlink + few spare chain links + part of bent coat hanger hook (for holding chain together) + (now) spare cleat & screws.