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Video camera footage as evidence


Rob's picture

By Rob - Posted on 28 February 2011

For those that commute this is encouraging. When talking about footage from helmet/handlebar cameras...

Police say they are willing to use the footage as evidence.

... although the police probably won't do anything unless you are hit and injured Sad

It's like an incident I had at a train station the other week. Some kid tries to follow me through the gate so I turned and stopped him and asked why he didn't have a ticket. Then I noticed there was a guard there and asked if they were going to book the guy. The reply was they cannot book someone unless they've done something wrong, the clear intent to commit a crime (fare evasion in this case) isn't the same as actually committing it. This is stupid if you ask me... so you'd let someone off if they tried to kill me with their vehicle but didn't manage 'cos I avoided them? What about if they tried to shoot me? Sad

Anyhow, here's the story:

http://www.smh.com.au/digital-life/cameras/cycli...

hawkeye's picture

... it all depends on the approach you take.

The cop investigating my crash in December '09 when that (insert swear word of choice) lined me up and took me out was adamant that clear video evidence could be acted on to issue Traffic Infringement Notices.

The setup the guys in the SMH article now use (and I know them both) is Hi-res camera on the bars or helmet 720p or higher to capture rego plates, and a lower res 480p one pointing rearward to capture vehicle movement on approach.

A big reason why cops seem stand-offish is a scepticism that you'll follow through and go to court if necessary. Deal with that, and they are more likely to be cooperative. The best way to deal with that is to provide documentation.

Discussion on how to approach the police and get a result here: http://www.bicycles.net.au/forums/viewtopic.php?...

The key item: Incident report template with suggestions and commentary on what to do (and equally importantly, what not to do) found here: https://docs.google.com/document/d/11M3ciNxPlwsx...

The third key is to follow up and escalate - show them you're serious by being stubborn and persistent.

ChopStiR's picture

Interesting argument Rob, I guess the difference that we live with today is Intended or Attempted as you can be charged for attemping something i.e. Murder, theft, terrorism... If you could charge someone for there intentions. What world be next? Minority Report?

I like the police using using video as evidence, but how far are they going with it? Can it be used to penalise a driver for not stopping properly at a stop zone?

Rob's picture

Well... in the case I cite the guy attempted to evade a fare by following me. I stopped him.

Basically, attempting this, and other trivial crimes like, oh... scaring a bike rider sh!tless with your 2 tonne box of death are ignored by the police and they only get serious when it's too late Sad

pancakes's picture
A partner for Armstrong Legal, Lionel Rattenbury, said the footage could give cyclists strong ammunition if an incident made it to court, so long as conversations were not recorded without consent. ''It is akin to CCTV footage,'' he said.

I don't know if it's sufficient to say "hey c*(khead, you're being recorded!" if you get into a 'conversation', or if it's better to disable the microphone.

Worth knowing what the law is, regardless. Eye-wink

shano's picture

I was driving through the inner city last week and saw a cyclist holdng a camera in his hand with one hand on the bars!

I think that your just as likely to film other cyclists doing the wrong thing as you are motorists.
Honestly, if I was going to have a camera on my bike I would want one in my car when I am driving, it would be just as useful.
I was lucky when I was younger I got knocked off my bike trying to make an intersection turn. The cops were a couple of cars back and saw the whole thing. They pulled the driver over, picked me up for medical attention but nothing happened legally.

daveh's picture

The clear differentiation between your fare evasion and murder is that attempted murder itself (regardless of what happens afterwards) is a crime in itself whereas attempted fare evasion is not. In the case of someone nearly hitting you but you avoiding them, if it was clearly intentional, malicious, whatever then maybe the police would charge the person with attempted murder. In reality they would b charged with dangerous driving which is a crime regardless of whether you avoided them or not.

Don't get me wrong, I am 100% on your side, I commute to the CBD daily but these (rare in my experience) idiots are what we have to do deal. The only answer is to turn the other cheek because I worry what one of these idiots would resort to if I did what really wanted to do.

LadyToast's picture

Not so stupid really.. a quick look on DX shows lots of cameras designed to record your drives for precisely this reason.

http://www.dealextreme.com/c/digital-cameras-411

These are designed to sucker to a car windscreen but would be easy to fit anywhere else. I ride a bicycle and motorbike and have lost count of the number of times I wished I had been recording.

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