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Are MTBers becoming rude???
So, I want to have a bit of a rant here, but feel free to say whether you agree or disagree with me.
When I first got into mtb riding about 4 years ago, one of the the things that I always enjoyed was the instant sense of community that appeared to exist among mountain bikers. Whenever I would go for a ride on my local bush trails, other riders would always wave or say hello. Certainly it was better than my experience with road riders!!! They would even stop to help you fix a flat! However, especially in the past 12 months, I feel that this happens less and less. I will always say hello to other riders (and pretty much any trail users), but it seems that rarely is the greeting returned. How hard can it possibly be?
A couple of experiences recently have really got me especially frustrated however.
These two incidents both took place at Manly Dam within the last 6 months. I don't ride here very often (i've probably only been here 10 times in 6 months), so maybe these are isolated incidents - i have no way of knowing. Now, I had always been under the impression that the rule for cyclists at Manly Dam was to always give way to pedestrians, and (maybe unofficially) ride in a clockwise direction around the dam.
The first, (I was riding in a clockwise direction) was heading up beside the road, just before entering the short bush section to the golf course entrance. As I was heading uphill, a group of 10-12 riders came flying out from the bush towards me, with the lead rider yelling, "rider ahead, ahead" upon seeing me. As they flew past, they went past on both my left and right sides, and seemingly each rider didn't notice me until they were on top of me! Given how unpredictable they were, my only option was the completely stop and wait until they had all gone past before I felt comfortable to continue. No apology. But not even a hello! Just yelling!
The second, I had come across a young girl who had fallen off her bike, just after you turn back into the bush along Cootamundra Drive. Her handle bars had moved in the fall, so I offered to realign them. Just as she was getting back on her bike, a "gun ho" rider came through, again yelling, "Rider!". He flew past so close that he startled this poor young girl, which caused her to fall off her bike again! As I looked ahead, there were walkers on the track with their dogs who had to literally jump out of his way too!
Now I can appreciate that in a race situation, you can call out to a slower rider ahead to inform them of your intentions to overtake. However, a few laps around Manly Dam is not a race. Chill out! Me personally, if I see pedestrians ahead, I ALWAYS slow down, and wait for an appropriate time to overtake. In fact, I would never yell at a pedestrian expecting them to get out of my way either, however I can understand POLITELY alerting a pedestrian of your presence (although let's be honest, most of the time there is no need to). The same even applies with other riders: I realise i'm not going to be setting any new speed records, so if I'm on a section of single track for example, I will wait for a suitable time to pass them.
I guess I better explain why these incidents have annoyed me so much. I feel that any mtb rider acts as an ambassador to the sport when they are riding. Firstly, take the example of the young girl - if that were me when I was younger, I would be totally discouraged about the sport if I saw that from another rider! Surely we want more people to have the opportunity to share in the sport that we all love?
Secondly, just in the last week, I've read on here and other mountain bike sites about the Ku-ring-gai council putting on hold their plans for a purpose built mountain bike area at North Wahroonga. This is actually my local area, so I was pretty disappointed to hear this. The reason it's been scrapped is because of residents complaining. Now I realise their concerns are slightly different to what I've seen at Manly Dam, however, it certainly doesn't help our case. What the Ku-Ring-Gai example shows us is that when enough residents complain, they will win out against the few mountain bikers. And if they saw what I've witnessed at Manly Dam - basically how rude MTBers are - truthfully I'd say that their concerns are justified! Sadly, the majority of us I feel, do the right thing. However, the minority spoil it for the majority. We are pretty lucky to have a place like Manly Dam - I fear that if this minority of riders continue to abuse the privilege, it will spoil it for the majority.
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A very good post Alex - and a good reminder to all of us to be good ambassadors to the sport. I'm sure most readers of this forum are friendly and polite, but we've all come across the mavericks from time to time.
I would like to think this is a isolated incident...
Im guessing with Manly dam been the only bit of singletrack ride on the northern beaches there are a lot of people riding this area and all of differing ablities. The racer "heros" need to understand that poor behaver on this track does a lot of damage to gaining access to other riding venues in and around sydney not just northern beaches. IF they want to race to to a organised race. If they are going to do a hot lap around these places do it during times of little traffic and be prepared to bail out on a hot lap if conditions/traffic suggest that it is not worth the hasle.... A little bit of common sense and respect for other users goes a long way!!!
I personally do not believe that the type of behaver you experienced is the normal, It does only take one bad egg to ruin the box though...
I live down the road so Manly Dam is my local if want to go for a quick spin and I can definitely say that this is not "normal" behavior for the Dam. So much so that if I do have a mechanical it usually takes twice as long to fix because so many people stop to see if they can help and end up having a chat! I always stop for people and if they do need help find that the vast majority of mtb'ers slow down and ask if everything things is ok.
There are definitely heroes who treat it like a race but they are in the minority and most love to see people out enjoying the tracks, especially if they are new to the sport. Sorry to hear about your experience and rest assured that people acting like that should and do receive a swift reprimand.
I was talking to one of the Terrey Hills horse riders last week and she thinks we are getting better at sharing trails. There will always be people who either don't know the rules or deliberately stretch them at times. Personally I think the trend is that we are becoming more conscious of the need to share and generally doing a better job of it.
Agree. And it was nice to hear that from her.
FWIW, I've never come across a grumpy horse rider at Terrey Hills either.
Wish I could say the same of walkers. Encountered more than a few churlish peds, who respond to a cheerful hello with grunts and sour looks when you greet them on the fire trail. Strange people.
Well I'm pleased to hear that these must just be isolated incidents. I still feel that the strong sense of community that once existed among riders is not what it used to be, but that's quite possibly just my perception.
Interesting what you say with the walkers, and maybe this comes back to my original post. If some of the walkers have experienced similar incidents to me, no wonder they look at all MTBers with contempt. So then, it should be everyone's responsibility to ensure we share the trails when riding - surely this can only help the sport in the long run!
I ride Manly Dam and I find that other riders are very friendly. Almost everyone is friendly and helpful, for example when you get a flat it is rare for someone not to ask if you are ok and have everything. Although while most runners and walkers are friendly and don't try and get in our way, 2 weeks ago I saw 8 runners going through the single trail along Wakehurst parkway the wrong way. It is also 100% official that riders can only go one way, especially on the single trail bits.
I could be wrong, but I don't believe that is yet the case. It was an open point on the POM meetings I attended last year. Most riders were against setting that as a hard and fast rule. A number of riders like the option of going contra-flow sometimes at quiet times (obviously, not on peak traffic weekend days) as it is a completely different (and more challenging) circuit when ridden in reverse.
The view was put by one of the riders who expressed that view that riders going in the normal clockwise direction should have right of way over those going counterclockwise, which would resolve conflicts.
I guess we'll see which view wone out when the draft POM comes out.
Regarding the churlish walkers, on the one occasion they actually spoke their attitude had more to do with prejudice towards mountain bikers as "environmental vandals", which i found quite ironic seeing at the time we were actually on a wide dirt road prone to being chewed up by AWD fire trucks (Long Trail at TH).
Except for one loony with a dog at Manly Dam, every walker I've encountered there has been very reasonable. I've only ever encountered one rider there with a bad attitude, the rest have been fine. It's certainly dramatically better than the territorial aggression you get at most beaches in the surf.
I just remember that the sign at the Wakehurst parkway entrance says it must be ridden in a clockwise direction and on a map I had of the dam it said in a clockwise direction only. I guess it would be nice to try it out once but I prefer going downhill of single track.
http://nobmob.com/node/add/hot-lap-bleh
I still find mtb'ers pretty chatty and happy.
It's got something to do with all the road riding they are doing these days.
You level of rudeness is directly proportional to the amount of road Ks you've done.
Was wondering when that'd come up. I've noticed that the "race heroes" tend to be scummers in disguise. I remember one on a social ride who never smiled and was only interested in talking to you if you had shaved legs and skin-tight jerseys on - and then again all he talked about was his lap time and overall heart rate.
I guess it comes down to the individual. It is hard to influence the behavours of others and I guess the rude dudes are not interested in the posts here. They are probably elsewhere on the web. All we can do is ensure that we set an example for others to follow and try and influence the rude dudes however we can.
I know this is predomintly a MTB site, however you will find some people on here are what you call "scummers" saying that rudeness is proportional to how many K's ridden is pretty off the cuff remark, which i find pretty offensive.
I guess you could call me a race hero then, since I do indeed shave my legs, wear lycra and take my riding seriously, just because you have had a bad experience with road bikers doesnt mean we are all like that. The club I ride with (NSCC) when we are out on our bunch rides we check if people are ok and wait for people with punctures etc as well, so I dont think all "scummers" are like this personally. Tbh its like walkers targetting MTB'ers and saying they are bad for the environment, its the small minority that cause issues and MTB'ers dont like being targetted, yet your more than happy to target roadies and call us rude and offensive.
For the record I rode home yesterday and a guy had come off on the cycle path at Lane Cove, I saw 4 roadies with him making sure he was ok, while the ambo's attended to him. Did I stop, no I didnt as there 4 people there and the ambo's had arrived, there was nothing more that I could do.
Apparently the amount of road miles you do is inversely proportional to your level of humour....
Relax it was a joke. For the record I've done my share of scumming miles too. i rode fixies 20 years before it was cool and just today riding into work I didn't wave to the rider on the other side of the road.
@flynny... don't worry about Logan... bl00dy poms!
Doesnt translate to well on forums I guess!
I guess my overall point is the view towards roadies/scummers in general, we are not all bad (Yes I do class myself as a roadie I guess first and foremost)
What, Logan a roadie?! Can't possibly be true. He smiles at people when he rides. I've seen it!
And he's a real nice bloke too. Quit pulling our legs, will ya?
and I give people a wave as well (maybe because I was a MTB for 14yrs prior)
I say g'day to everyone when I'm riding at track or trail. I'd say I have a 50% strike rate with getting a smile, let alone a response, from walkers.
I've walked on dirt...and it's not that hard. So it can't be a concentration thing. If only these people knew what fun bikes were....
My basic feel good roolz (applies to road and off-road)
1) Always get off the bike when you see an horse rider, and ask them what they would like you to do.
2) Always ask a stopped rider if they are OK, most are.
3) Slow RIGHT down when passing peddestraians or kids on bikes. Give them a very wide berth.
4) When overtaking a rider say "Alright mate" in a very out of breath gasp
5) Make some warning sounds when approaching someone from behind. (On my commutes I click my brake levers and freewheel the bike).
6) For races, "track when you are ready". The other riders must respond Left/Right before you pass. Always say thanks when past, even if your lungs are in your mouth.
7) It's good to wave at cars that make an effort to give us space too. Leaves a good impression and a nice warm feeling in the cockles.
8 ) Cover one of, or dim my lights when stopped at traffic lights. Don't shine into eyes of other road users or pedestrians.
9) Use clean clothes, riding behind smelly riders isn't nice (good motivation to pass though).
10) Soak your bike clothes immediately afterwards, that smell sticks if left too long.
I don't think that riders are becoming more rude it's just that the demographic has changed from a small group of like minded adrenalin filled young people doing what was once known as an extreme sport to a large broad ranging group of people doing it for different reasons (often selfish middle aged yuppies trying to be cool). (and yes I'm 48)
I think that one of the rudest (and dangerous) things a rider can do is to spoil someone's ride by blocking the trail for petty reasons (including falling off)
This may sound harsh but I don't care if the view is beautiful or your mobile phone rang or you stubbed your toe. GET OFF THE TRACK! If you fall off & graze you knee I still don't care GET OFF THE TRACK! If you stubbed your toe crossing the road would you stop in the middle & hold up the traffic?? In my main riding disciplines (dirt jumping & down hill) it is not only considered rude but a major safety issue. It only requires 2-3 steps away from the riding line and the trail is open again.
Crashes are very much a part MTB and in my view no reason to block the trail unless the rider is seriously injured & in need of an ambulance. If they need time to cry in their hanky & gather up their pride there is usually plenty of room to do it off the riding line.
To summarize these 2 instances of rudeness:- We have a bunch of riders riding too fast & too close (and presumably frightening) a fellow rider and 1 riding too close to a damsel in distress that may have been out of her depth. These are not exactly hanging offences and don't really consider the other riders point of view. (in fact the riders in question didn't really hurt anyone). From the other riders point of view you may have been the rude one blocking the trail for 10-12 riders instead of moving over to let them through and for not teaching the obvious noob lady how to get back on her bike & trail safely. (just looking from a different perspective)
One of the greatest things about MTB is that there are no speed limits and freedom to test your skill & take personal risks and if we are going to label people who ride fast or too close as rude we are just a bunch of wowsers about to ruin the sport.
As far as saying hello to everyone you meet. I think that as the sport becomes more main stream riders have less in common and have more varied reasons for riding. i,e You may say hello to everyone you meet in your local neighbourhood but may not do it in the city.
I always say hello and go out of my way to be as friendly as possible however if you are looking for a social scene in the middle of the trail go back to the cafe and let those who want to ride do so.
In my view the best gesture you can make toward your fellow rider is to show tolerance towards their differences and try to see things from the other point of view. Manly Dam has a wide range of riders from the once a year noob to the speedy multi lappers and I think we should be careful labelling anyone that is not really harming anyone as being rude.