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Trail etiquette: Who should give way on a (technical) hill?
From what I've read (including on this site) ascending riders should give way to those coming down a trail/track. This seems counter-intuitive to me though, when one considers difficult climbs.
Here, the ascending rider is doing all the work, having to work at keeping a smooth rhythm, trying to stay on a decent line, dealing with loose stuff that can throw the bike, ...
The kind of climbing one finds on the Oaks, for example; steep, loose and bumpy. Where, if you stop for any reason, it's difficult to get going again.
In these situations, it's seemed odd to have the ascending rider have to make the adjustment to suit the ones coming the other way.
What do you reckon?
(Happily, this is an 'in principle' question. In all my riding so far, descending riders are safely within their limits and show consideration for the climbers by adjusting their lines. We seem to be a very friendly and thoughtful bunch!)
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where who is climbing is given right of way over who is coming down as they have that bloody ever present gravity behind them.......
@RobbieO ... You get my vote.
Definitely the ascending rider should give way. The descending rider has say 95kg (rider + bike) + gravity helping them down the hill. Very hard to stop and/or change direction quickly. Easiest for the rider going uphill at low speed to give way as it's less likely to end in tears. If the rider tearing down hill has to dive to one side then it could end in broken bones while the rider going uphill may have to contend with becoming unclipped and putting their foot down. No comparison - safety vs inconvenience. Safety first!
The last post strikes at the heart of the issue; is it reasonable (safe) to be belting down a hill at or close to the limit when there's every chance ... likelihood ... that'll you have riders coming up the other way?
We share a resource ... all the public trails out there ... so doesn't that mean that our riding should always accommodate other riders?
Which means we allow for having to make direction changes if needed. Whether it be riding uphill, downhill or whatever.
And when assessing the needs of riders ... gravity is a huge assist, and it's not in the climber's favour.
@Fatboy: Not having a dig at you at all, but wondering how we share our trails, make sure we don't get in each other's way, stay safe AND get to enjoy ourselves all at the same time.
Because by your logic you would kill every DH push track created if riders goin down hill had to adjust for ones coming up.
If you're looking for a safe sport.. dont go mountain biking.. because its not. Part of the appeal (in fact the majority of the appeal for all except the sadistic hill climb fans) is barelling through some sweet single track or down a hill as quick as you can.
If you have to get off n push for abit to let someone enjoy the descent then so be it.
Having said that common sense always prevails and i can say in my time riding its never been an issue. So if it aint broke..
This topic is a bit of a can of worms.
I agree completely with safety first - safety *has* to come first. To my mind that means the rider who is most committed has right of way, and the other should yield. Seems to me that is going to mean descending rider is going to get priority most of the time.
Not having a dig, I understand your question is genuine, but I'd suggest Adrian that it might be useful to consider who would have right of way on the rocky descents on the Wakehurst Parkway section of Manly Dam if it were not a one-way-only circuit. (In days gone by you were able to ride it either way: plaques riveted to the rocks and posts around the circuit have arrows pointing both directions, although clockwise was recommended.)
Once you are committed on any of those sections, there ain't no stopping or getting off until you're at the bottom of the chute.
Why not both riders slow down and say g'day.... How hard is it?
dudes in Lycra have right of way unless they are a hipster fixie.. end of debate.
Quote from IBMA Rules of the Trail
"4. Yield Appropriately: Do your utmost to let your fellow trail users know you're coming — a friendly greeting or bell ring are good methods. Try to anticipate other trail users as you ride around corners. Bicyclists should yield to other non-motorized trail users, unless the trail is clearly signed for bike-only travel. Bicyclists traveling downhill should yield to ones headed uphill, unless the trail is clearly signed for one-way or downhill-only traffic. In general, strive to make each pass a safe and courteous one."
Common sense really.
Exactly.
Good find Heckler.
My friend and I have been in a situation where we were coming down from the Oaks helipad side by side and seen two cyclists riding up side by side with a good long line of site. It was clear they had also seen us coming down. My friend and I formed a single line on the left. The two riding up did not budge from their lines. My friend and I were forced to slow right down and ride in the fire trail gutter to avoid the riders coming up. We thought of it as poor form on their behalf for not forming a single line and allowing a safe passage for us to cross paths. I'm curious to know others opinions on this.
And test the theory, you will realize real quick that the decending rider rules, its get out of the way or get hurt.
Yes there are exceptions to the rule, but generally speaking its much easier to move a bike going 2kph to the side of the track compared to bike going 50kph over drops jumps and so on.
It is however better to have one way AM tracks and Downhill with shuttle points or designated push run trails
The IMBA rule of the trail was fine when the technology available meant most people rode down technical descents at a similar speed to what they rode up the hill. I believe this rule should be changed to have the ascending rider give way. It is the safest option. If both riders are able to slow down or stop and say hello even better, but ultimately I think the ascending rider should give way.
When one walks up every hill as I do, I suggest it would be a bit rude to expect descending rides to give way.
If its a techy climb/decent then the ascending rider should give way every time!
There is far more chance of the descending rider crashing if they had to stop/give way.
Let's face it most of us have more fun going down than back up. Its stupid to say that the descending rider should be going slow enough to get out of the way of the ascending rider. That will never happen.
Whoever yells "STRAVA RUN!" first has right of way. Simple.
Bullbar deplomacy seems to rule here, buta little curtisy goes a long way unless peddleling up a hill when facing someone who's about to leave a hole in the scenery.
So far it's not obvious there's a 'right' answer. It very much does depend. And yes - I was certainly coming at this from a XC perspective.
Downhill racing? It's in the name - Ascenders beware! (What are they doing there anyway?) Rider committed to a tricky decent ... absolutely, the ascender should to step aside to accommodate them.
What wouldn't make sense though would be for a rider to be tearing hell for leather down a shared trail, and to have them leave no room for manoeuvre, forcing anyone else to clear off at the risk of a spill. Which is what prompted the 'who gives ...' question.
But - like I said - it's never happened in my experience. Riders are consistently showing awareness and appropriate caution.
Did someone say 'if it ain't broke ...'
At least what this thread does demonstrate is that at the core of what we do, it's mutual consideration and respect for each other that counts. That'll always serve us far better than enforcing any rules.
Thanks for the insights guys.
Couldn't agree more, AdrianG.
You copy, oldandslow?
Ride like I drive.
Never had a smash, seen heaps in my rear view mirror though.