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Brake pad wear
Hi
I'm seeking advice on brake pad wear if I can please as I seem to be wearing through brake pads very quickly! In fact I have just gone through both front and rear pads over 5 rides and about 70km. Most of the riding has been XC style - tracks such as Terrey Hills, Cascades, and one lap of Manly Dam.
Prior to this I went through rear pads and 75% front over 12 rides and about 130km.
I'm new to MTB but saying that I'm not constantly riding the brakes the whole time and can keep up with more experienced riders uphill/downhill. Bike is dual suspension, hydraulic disk brakes, Shimano BR-M486 callipers and Shimano SM-RT53 rotors. Pads are B01S resin. I'm a small rider of moderate weight (77kg).
How long do brake pads normally last?
I'm now faced with having to purchase another couple of sets of pads, and at $30 - $40 a pair this is going to get expensive if they only last a few rides.
What sort of wear do others get?
Any suggestions or alternatives? (Apart from not touching the brake lever...)
Any different pad compounds? (Rotors say "Resin" only)
Does the track condition have anything to do with pad wear? ie sandy track, wet, puddles, raining etc.
Brakes are adjusted properly, centered over the rotor and showing mostly equal wear of both pads (90% worn on one pad, 100% on the other pad.)
Am I going to have to replace rotors and go to metal pads?
Any advice or recommendations would be greatly appreciated!
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This rate of wear seems excessive, unless... you've been riding in very wet conditions? We were doing a set a lap (around 9Km) at the Sydney 24!
Once you've buggered one set of pads in the wet, depending on how worn you let them get you may well have trashed the rotor too. When a rotor gets badly worn it will wear pads very quickly so you have to replace both pads and rotor at the same time to return to longer lasting wear from them both.
That does seem very excessive wear! I ride hard, in all conditions and I only replace pads every 1000km or so.
Tired of paying retail for pads, I recently was put onto Superstar componants. These guys make their own pads from original moulds for a large range of brake manufacturers. They are UK based and do a bulk special £20 for 4 pair of pads. shipping was another £5.
I have Avid Juicy brakes and I put my first pair on the front about 2 weeks ago and the stopping power is incredible, I'd say they are at least twice if not 3 times better than the new set of Avid Orignial pads ($43) I put on the rear only 2 weeks previous.
I bought 8 pairs for $70!!!
http://superstar.tibolts.co.uk/product_info.php?...
Phil
Thanks for your quick responses!
Yes the track was very wet yesterday (raining) however the other rides were dry. There were however a few muddy patches and puddles to ride through - I expect these to be a normal part of MTB!
How does the wet affect pad wear? Is it the water or sand that gets on the brakes?
I've checked out the Superstar pads - don't see my callipers/pads in the list but I'll check compatibility and model numbers and might send them an email asking. Price sounds a lot more affordable
At this stage I have a bike that can't be ridden until I fix this problem and buy some replacement pads.
thanks
That's where you get stung at your LBS for expensive pads, and the reason why I bought 8 pairs so I don't get caught out in a hurry.
Forgot to mention, Superstar are very quick to deliver took 5 days and that included a postal stike in the UK. Not bad eh.
Wet weather affects your pads serverely. Water and sand turns into quite an agreesive abrassive and will tear through your pads in no time, not to mention your whole drive train. Make sure you give your chain a good bath after a wet ride. And always always always lube it before every ride (if you know you've got creek crossings to do take lube with you and re-apply). And alway always clean your chain after every ride and lube again. Your bike will thank you for it.
I'm keen on getting some pads for my Elixir CRs from this Superstar joint. Should I go for the sintered model (only 5 quid extra for 4 sets) or will the regular ones do?
BWOAR!
I read somewhere (probably some nerd on this site!) that pads wear v quickly if not given the 10-20 heavy stops at +20k's an hour when you first fit your pads to wear them in.
Yes to both
I got the sintered pads and did the 10-20 heavy stops at 20kms an hour to bed them in. They also tell you to have some water handy to spray on your rotor and watch the steam rise... If it doesn't, you've not got them hot enough so repeat until you do.
+1 to sintered pads. The resin Shimano pads such as the ones you have are (in)famous for rapid wear in the wet. All pads will wear faster in wet/muddy conditions, but those Shimano pads are in a league of their own!
When I get home (assuming I can get on teh web - line goes out in wet weather) I'll post the name of the ones I use - very happy.
Deliver free to Aus
Sounds like this is a hot topic for many people!
Thanks for all your replies and advice. However it has now raised some further questions...
Resin vs sintered - the rotor says "resin only". Why? Is it due to the extra heat generated with the sintered (metal) pads? Will it damage the rotor? (If so what would be a suitable replacement rotor? (Shimano XT or XTR rotors?)
Will the extra heat damage the brake fluid?
I've found the websites for both Superstars and Discobrakes and will be placing an order later tonight. Just need to work out which pads. (I've found the BR-M485 and BR-M575 are compatible.)
Interestingly I found this Shimano tech document which says the B01S pad is sintered!!!
http://bike.shimano.com/publish/content/global_c...)%20Brake%20Pad%20Charcteristics.pdf
Then this document that says they are resin (which seems to be the general consensus)
http://techdocs.shimano.com/media/techdocs/conte...
How can you tell the difference between resin and sintered pads? (Is one metallic and the other not?)
Regarding bedding in the pads - I didn't do 20-30 stops from 20km/h but did ride the bike up and down the street a few times and tested the brakes. With the wear rate I've been getting 20-30 hard stops would have worn out the pads before I even hit the trail
Regarding disc damage - no damage or runout, wheel spins without rubbing. The pad has got to the metal and touched the rotor so there is some light scuffing. Can I remove this with some light sanding with wet/dry sandpaper? Should I do this?
Many many thanks for everyone's help.
Edit: Just noticed on discobrakess they have medium, sintered, ceramic 3x, and ceramic pro pads! Anyone have any experience with these different types of pads?
Loki
I don't know why your rotors would say resin only? If you want to play safe, and let's face it with brakes you probably should, then I'd upgrade to XT. XTR gear will still wear out and is basically the same thing just lighter and x3 the price. Expensive parts mean expensive to replace. And replace them you will have to do. Check with your LBS beforehand.
I took a look at Discobrakes and whilst I can't comment on the quality of their product, price-wise they don't come close to Superstar.
AFAIK Ceramic pads are made of tougher stuff and last longer, but that comes at a price.
Hi Phil
Discobrakes looks more expensive when you look at the price for a single pair however they do offer 4 pairs medium for AU$35.69 vs 19.95 pound (AU$40) from Superstar. Plus they offer free shipping to Australia.
My understanding of the "resin only" comment from some reading on the Internet (can't find the reference anymore...) is that it is related to the fluid Shimano use in the brake system. They use mineral oil which has a lower boiling point than the DOT4 brake fluid in other hydraulic brake systems. Using metal pads will make the rotors and calipers hotter potentially boiling the fluid and reducing it's effectiveness. This would in turn no doubt invalidate the bike's warranty etc etc.
The ceramic pads apparently have better heat insulation reducing heat to the brake components. Sounds interesting with regards to the brake fluid comment above.
I guess someone is going to have to try them out! I'm tempted...
AU$55.93 for 4 pairs ceramic pro.
I'll make a decision later tonight and let everyone know the results!
cheers
or rather I didn't see...
I stand corrected on price, i didn't spot the 4-pack multi price. So looks like Disco are also good for the money.
Anyone got any experience with their pads? Antony?
Phil
I have the BR-M486's and SM-RT53 rotors on my Giant Trance X2 and went through about 80% of both front and back pads doing the Oaks, which was wet and sandy so understand your frustration. I have since changed the rotors and put in sintered pads and have since had no problems.
My research showed that it was the rotors not the calipers that had the resin only warning.
I have tried before discobrakes, not for the BR-M486 and found their pads excellent and good value when you get the multiple packs.
Great brakes but stupid pads.
I'm just going through my first set and no issues so far!
Well I ordered 4 pairs of ceramic pro pads.
I'll let you know when they arrive and how they go when installed.
Loki
Hey Antony
How long you had the pads on?
How much wear is showing?
What kind of riding do you do?
What kind of conditions have you ridden the pads in?
On a scale of 1-10 how hard do you ride? (1 Pedestrian > 10 Hardcore)
Cheers
Phil
Hey Loki
Good luck with the brakes. Hope the go the distance for you this time
Please report back
Phil
How long you had the pads on?
month on the front say 250km give or take!
How much wear is showing?
Very little!
What kind of riding do you do?
Mainly dam and cascades!
What kind of conditions have you ridden the pads in?
Pretty crap with lots of grit!
On a scale of 1-10 how hard do you ride? (1 Pedestrian > 10 Hardcore)
Not sure, reasonable some heavy braking, some here would probably say pretty gay though!!!
Cheers
Antony
Well my new brake pads have finally arrived. I was getting worried that they were never going to get here! Postage from the US is a lot slower than I expected - the postmark says they left the US 21/4/09.
Anyway they look ok and I'll put them in tonight. At this stage though I don't think I'll get a chance to go for a ride this weekend due to other commitments
I'll let you know when I've tested them out.
Well I got out for a ride Sunday morning and am happy to say so far so good with the pads!
I went through the recommended bedding in process on both front and rear at separate times (15 to 20 stops from about 20-30kmh). This made a huge difference to the braking power! First time I used the brakes I thought "am I going to stop? Can I squeeze any harder?" but by about the 10th stop they felt really good and by the 15th were really really good
Prior to fitting the pads I also removed the rotors and cleaned the braking surface with some 320 wet & dry paper (wet).
Then went for a ride for about 3 hours over mixed terrain, including some very muddy sections and creek crossings. Brakes always felt solid - plenty of stopping power, no fade, and easily modulated. They squealed for a short time after the creek crossings but were silent the rest of the ride.
I've just had a close look at the pads, including removing the fronts from the bike and they are showing negligible wear. When putting a used pad up against one of the new ones (I bought 4 pairs) it was a fraction of a millimetre thinner. I'd say less than half a mm.
So I guess at this stage I can say I'm happy with them - both in terms of performance and wear.
I'll see how they go over the next few rides and post a follow up report. If I don't post for a while then you could assume they are still on the bike, performing well and not worn out!
FYI I bought the "Ceramic Pro" compound pads.
cheers
Loki
Thanks for the update. Sounds like they are already miles ahead of your old pads
Well after what seemed like a good run after two rides in the wet I've worn them out
After about 120km the pads were looking good and felt great. Maybe 10% worn?
Then after about 30km on a wet track including rain I seemed to wear through about 50%, and today after about 10km in the dry but on a very wet track (Wildflower + Warrimoo) I wore through the last of the pads to the point they were down to metal and I had to ride back to the car along the road.
Seems like there is something about these pads that just doesn't like the wet!
I've confirmed the callipers are working fine and the pads aren't sticking on, they're centred on the rotor, and I'm not dragging the brakes all the time. However whenever I hit a puddle or some mud there is a noticeable scraping sound from the brakes for a while afterwards. I believe there is sand getting stuck between the pads and rotor, or even embedded in the pads, and this is causing the noise and wear. I also experience a lot of travel in the brake lever at this time, to the point where today I was squeezing the lever so hard that it was touching the bars.
Perhaps the pad/rotor combination is not clearing the sand/mud out properly causing continued pad wear whilst the wheel is spinning but brake lever is not pressed?
Perhaps the pad material is so soft that it is worn down by sand?
I've now popped in the 3rd & 4th pair of pads I purchased from disco brakes earlier. Expectation though is that if I ride them in the wet I can only expect to get about 20-30km's from them. In the dry - then perhaps a couple of hundred km's.
Tomorrow I'll order some sintered metal pads. Give them a go and see how long they last. Hopefuly longer than what I've been getting so far?
I've had the bike now for 3months, ridden ~400km and gone through 6 pairs of brake pads.
I've seen a couple of comments recently regarding these brakes too. The latest Australian Mountain Bike magazine has a review of a bike that mentions horrid pad wear with these brake types in the wet, plus there was a letter to the editor in one of the magazines recently to the same effect.
Is this just a Shimano brake thing? Do other brake models have the same problem?
Quite frankly this rate of wear is ridiculous and is affecting my riding the bike.
Is it worth a complaints letter to Shimano or will this fall on deaf ears?
cheers
Loki
Hi loki,
Just looking to buy pads, and wanted to check if there was an update on how the sintered pads compared to the ceramic in the wet??
*** Just found it **** http://nobmob.com/node/9741
Just spotted that Torp7 are doing aftermarket Brake Pads for $7.99
http://www.torpedo7.com.au/products/ALBZPN8BP/ti...
They have pads to suit Elixir, Juicy, Shimanos and some of the esoteric brands.
Dunno if they are any good, but then if people are getting one wet ride out of a set of $40 original pads, they could be worth a try.
I know there is a lot of posts about this. But nothing I could clearly get an answer.
Can I use Ceramic Hard pads with my rotors that state 'resin pads only'. Will it damage/destroy the rotor?
My bike is a Giant Anthem X3 2010
I just bought some from Disco Brakes without checking/thinking!
What are the best brand pads to use?
If I can use them, would anyone like to buy two pairs for $35.00 delivered.
Thanks
my take on it from the description on disco brakes is that the ceramics are their version of a resin type pad. I would use them and if they destroy your rotors get a new set as the grade of steel in those cheaper shimano rotors is rubbish. Vaguely remember the shimano rep telling me those resin only rotors only come OEM, you can't buy them unless they come on a bike.
Thats what i heard, any thought about some replacement rotors!!
I've tried all varieties of pads from Discobrakes and have found the "gold" coloured metallic sintered pads to be the longest lasting.
As for the rotor - yes it will wear faster so expect to replace them sooner. I doubt though that they will spectacularly fail just by using a different pad compound.
The Red ceramic hard pads did last a while for me, but not as much as the sintered.
You mention "6-bolt rotors" in your post - if you have these and not centrelock rotors then why don't you buy a new rotor from discobrakes too? I put the following on mine and it made a difference: Rotors: 160mm All Mountain Disc Brake Rotor http://www.discobrakes.com/?s=0&t=4&c=55&p=187&
cheers
Jon
Thanks for the advice. I thought rotors were much more expensive than they are. If i burn through the rotor, replacement is a no brainer and little cost.
Am i rideing to slow. I have had my 09 Trance x1 With XT brakes for 18 mths done app 2,000 klm includeing 50klm dirtworks rides at Glenrock and Awaba and still have original pads
nah mate the exact opposite i got 2000 klm out of mine i just lay of the brakes and let the bike tell me where it wants to go more fun that way