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Trail building permits for a metro forest area - Cumberland State Forest?
I may be overzealous here and jumping the gun but after having read as much as possible into National, State and Council owned forest areas.
It seems that State Forests seem to have more flexibility in allowing for MTB trails to be built.
With the Dam being the busiest track in Oz and Ourimbah, Yellomundie and Appin donks away. And forests around the Northern Beaches area being National Parks with other parks protected by the 'Yogi Bear fan club' rangers.
Its a safe bet to say that there is almost nothing else around the Sydney metro region for such a highly populated sporting group.
Lane Cove is a joke for single trail and Menai isnt too bad but shared amongst motoheads.
But you look at Ourimbah, Awabi and Yellomundie who are supported by the local MTB clubs, therefore supported by NSW Forests as well.
Would it be prudent to ask the office for Cumberland State Forest (Pennant Hills area) to determine whether a sustainable single track circuit be built around that area?
Having spoken to bikers around the area, they have put their hand up to assist in "Build days" with the rangers to work out a good trail system.
If its determined to be a success, this could well possibly become the busiest track in Sydney alleviating the likes of the Dam.
Its central, there's pockets of hectares to pick from and the economic benefits of it would promote the area significantly.
Rob - Do you think this is feasible or am I blowing wind up my ass again?
I know this technically falls out of the Northern Beaches area but I get tired of driving out so far to get a decent single trail ride if the Dam is closed.
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Looks a bit small, but it's quiet close to the loop talked about on here:
http://nobmob.com/node/9998
http://www.everytrail.com/view_trip.php?trip_id=...
Does anyone know if there's anything in Cumberland SF? Note the above loop goes through Darling Mills state forest and there does seem to be a sliver of greenery that could join this with Cumberland.
Anyone feel like giving the information office there a call?
Cumberland State Forest
Information Centre
95 Castle Hill Road
West Pennant Hills NSW 2125
PO Box 100 Beecroft NSW 2119
Phone: 1300 655 687 or (02) 9871 3377
Email: [email protected]
Damn I should have stayed at IBM if that was the case. Would be nice to go for a ride every lunch!
-Cumberland State forest, there is a short loop down behind the forestry commission, loops around the IBM offices.Your not supposed to ride through all the forest tracks, but its worth exploring on a nice afternoon.
cheers
Kurt
Technically Yellomundi is a Regional Park managed by NPWS.
Forest NSW can be easier to deal with and are a lot more flexable as their conservation charter in not as high as NP and they do encourage sustainable recreation.
However it all comes down to the local manager. Working forest's are under the pump to be economically self sufficient so if your proposal gets veiwed as something that is going to use up their resources or interfer with logging than you are up against it.
There is a bit of info on state forest that do have MTB facilities here
http://wiki.nswmtb.asn.au/index.php?title=Forest...
That would be an awesome place to build tracks, I would even help out.
Well... there are tails there but because the forest is only 40ha really not suitable for riding. Fair enough to be honest.
Sounds like it's a family friendly place good for taking the kids for a stroll without travelling too far.
The most suitable place in the Hills area for a sustainable Manly Dam style cuircuit is Fred Catterson reserve in Castle Hill.
Ive been riding there for a while and it has great potential. I think it would go close to getting approval as there is already a pre exisiting
Off Ride cycling track
BMX Track
and well marked walking trails {read single track}
It would require minmal work and has all the requirements pre existing car park toilets etc.
I had earlier in the year thought about looking into putting a proposal in and there was some discussion on Rotorburn.
Many people said they would be willing to help with building and Steve Humphries from WSMTB said he would give all the help he could.
Due to work commitments I haven't done anymore and probably can't till some time next year but if I wasn't the only one pushing for it I would be more than happy help get the ball rolling
we went to Hollybank forest in Tasmania
to do the treetops tour
which is awesome by the way
but its a working forest and they have a Dh track
didnt get a good look at it
but was told by the young guy there that is worked in with the tas forestry commission and every one is happy
check out
pedalbite.com
Just for background knowledge purposes I should point out that the area that Ourimbah MTB is on is actually leased by the club from the State Forestry bunch. (I don't know how much for) There are also some stipulations to the agreement which if broken would mean the end of the lease. One of these is that no improvements be built without approval of State Forest, and this includes new tracks too... they do not want a bunch of tracks criss crossing each other all over the place.
But the main point about Oourimbah is that State Forest allow the tracks to be built, but they expect payment for that privilege. You may face the same situation at cumberland.... but it's a great idea regardless!
Last I checked Squamish has a working forrest through which there are multiple bike trails. seems to work ok.
CCOMTB got put into the same agreement that we at HMBA negotiated with Awaba. They are both handled by the same branch of Forests NSW.
Its not a lease as such, but an Operational Permit (with a Special Purpose Permit underneath to cover racing). We pay a yearly fee, we pay a fee per rider at events over 100 people, we are responsible for any damage to the site and if we step outside the permit conditions, we are liable for any $$$ required to return the site to its original state.
Any trails built are subject to SF approval and require at the bare minimum Flora and Fauna reports to be commissioned and the tracks are periodically inspected.
I think the arrangement is pretty good and it gives an element of control to the trails. I certainly can't fault the set up at this point.
I think it would be hard for a non club set up to get it going though, unless you can secure the required insurance.
Spudatm, would you be open to re-commence it again?
Many hands make light work so I'm more than happy to give u a hand in reigniting it.
What do you need done?
Spoke to them earlier in the week as well and their concerns were of erosion caused by "free riders". I asked whether they had issues with current bikers in the trail and there are issues with the potential collision with the current shared walking tracks.
When asked about a proposed seperate trail maintained wholly by a local club, the guy replied "huh ... so we dont have to pay for it?!"
I took that to be positive so I told I'd call them back later with a proposal ...
Who knows. It could be linked in with the Excelsior reserve loop
Here is the rotorburn discussion http://www.rotorburn.com/forums/showthread.php?t...
I put it out as an idea did a bit of research and then got busy and haven't done anything since but here is what i found out or already know.
The land is council owned
There is about 12 k's worth of trails that already exist and you could make a 8 km xc race course loop out of the exisiting trails with only minimal building needed depending on council requirements.
The trails apart from one section do not specifically proclude mtb.
There are already off road cycling paths that run through the reserve
There is an existing BMX track
The is a existing BMX club
It is positioned next to a pony club whos land would help make a loop come race day and they offer their facilities for hire to the general public.
Pre-exisiting facilities include car park and toilet
The hills shire is relativly cycle friendly with many off road concrete and dirt cycling paths.
What i need
Is to get the ear of council
create a proposal; The best one i have seen is the HVMTB proposal and could get their help {i have a contact}
Get support of club/clubs/NSWMTB
ive already spoken to wsmtb informallywith WSMTB{im a member} they think its a good idea but can't help with building or proposal apart form advice.
My thought to help get this off the ground and make it an attractive deal to council is to promote it as a race venue because as it stands we can ride there at the moment no problems.
To help in this process i was going to come from the angle of one a charity event and two a schools event. The first idea is to run a MTB enduro in conjuction with the Hills relay for life. The other is that im a teacher id like to get a local mtb comp up and running.
So by my way of thinking if the venue helps the community through fundraisng and keeping kids active we would have a good chance. The main thing though is help, the more the better.
There is a lot going for this idea. The existing adjoining facilities for example. The fact council can get a very handy facility with basically zero outlay should whet their appetite!
Although you can ride in Fred Caterson right now it's probably best to try and get the place recognised as a council recreational facility and some official mapping of the trails. Official access is key to enable you to do proper maintenance. An 8km+ loop would be pretty good and any other trails a bonus. As a point of reference the council have said there will never be any racing at Manly Dam - although of course parts of the circuit are on public roads which wouldn't help that.
If you could kick off with some charity events think that would be great publicity. I also like the teaching idea. I can't remember who it was, but have spoken to someone about a school course on MTB riding which encompasses bush and trail care. If you could get that to fly there would be winners all round!
I presume you mean HSMBA? Drop me a PM/mail if you need a few contacts but sounds like you have that all in hand. More than happy to plug this idea and get you support any way we can.
Ill do a bit more research and see where i end up.
I think the big thing is representation. Effectivly I would have to cold call the council and if i represent no one im very easy to ignor. However i don't want to start my own club either so imput from Nobmob, MWMTB, WSMTB is what im hoping for.In terms of a plug that would be great. Ive never even contemplated this before so id need some serious assitance. As you have mentioned though im starting to get some contacts in the MTB world so that might make things a little easier.
i live close to Fred Caterson and work even closer, a lunch time ride there would be great to break up the office boredom.
I have never riden there though so would get hopelessly lost.
Any chance of a tour of the area one weekend?
Don
club, too much hard work and then there is the need / expectation of insurances etc.
Start yourself an alliance, maybe the "Bike The Hills Alliance"
Ask people to register their interest, maybe the mod of this site can give you hand setting up a simple website or even page attached to here to help
You would want peoples full names, addresses and contact details, then you have some "weight" behind your ideas. As you say, one off your easy for the council to fob off but with documented support it will help your case.
looking around for others nearby
mapmyride isn't very populated with info
mostly out and back but around the dam
starts in the middle and does two loops, one west, one east
#1
http://youtu.be/d3K2hlJWpmg
#2
http://youtu.be/gMzLc1mWUuM
and still more, pause it at the end, 7:22 to see where
http://youtu.be/fawFvWPb22Q