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The Bewildered Possum
G'day guys and gals
I did a lap around Manly Dam today and included the extended loop.
As i was just entering possums just after the 3 rocks there was an old lady runner coming towards me. I got off and let her pass. Got back on my bike and kept on going. No more than 30meters later there where another 2 runners coming towards me. Did the right thing and got off my bike and let them through, neither of them thanked me. As i come over the little creek crossing i didn't notice the next runner coming at me and we almost collided. Now this guy got the shits because i almost hit him, which in turn started to fire me up. But i just jumped back on and kept riding. There was one more runner just before you go into Kevin Costner, and i asked, are you guys with a group. She said yep a personnel trainer group and we've just started running on this track. I tried to tell her that this was a mtb trail and that they were running in the wrong direction for a start, but she wouldn't listen.
Am i wrong in saying that? Didn't Trevor do this masterpiece ?
Ive been riding possums for 6 months now most afternoons and thats the 1st time ive seen runners or walkers on there.
Brendan Speechley
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What have I started? Its a
Submitted by dreggsy on Sat, 15/11/2014 - 18:48.
What have I started? Its a trail to get riders off the narrow road for those who do the "extended loop". Just ride your fucking bikes and have fun. It will all make sense in the long run. PS I wonder if wiggle are the ones handing out prizes at the races you enter.
All good hawkeye. I know you put a fair bit of effort into advocacy down that way and It takes more than that to offend me.
Tone is often lost in text. And when you are emotionally involved in a project it can seem like others are being overly critical of what you are doing. I wasn't meaning anything as a personal attack just offering personal opinion and advice based On pervious experience.
I've been following this thread, and taken time to become more familiar with the Bewildered Possum over the course of the last 10 days. I didn't expect what followed my comment that we could have a ride day to disrupt the runners on the 18th.
Having subsequently ridden both of the new NPWS trails and TBP multiple times, as well as incorporating them into a lap of the dam, I can only say that we're currently blessed with a trio of new toys that augment and improve the old staple in our toy box.
Sure it can get a bit hot in TBP if you come across a rider heading the opposite direction in the tight and densely wooded sections. Advertising the priority direction could, at the very least, help determine who gives way to whom.
After interacting with descending runners (only, never seen an ascending runner), climbing and descending riders, dog walkers, broken bottles and some dodgy bloke on a cannondale 29er, my perception of the trail is developing. The only "issues" I've had in probably 30+ interactions with other trail users have come down to one dog, that couldn't understand that it worked best if he and his human both passed to the same side of the riders (the human was extremely friendly and apologetic), and a world cup rider descending at full tilt and not even offering a greeting let alone yielding right of way. Neither event worth mentioning in the grand scheme of things, except to highlight how well this trail is working with a diverse range of users. (Disclaimer: I'm not on strava, nor do I wear a HRM or ride with a GPS device. I ride to ride)
Sure 80, 90, 200+ runners are going to screw it up for riders during their event. A bigger concern for me is the possible trail straightening in a few sections where runners may already be avoiding contact with riders or taking straight cuts. I can see a large group of competitive runners beating in a new trail alignment damn quickly. Asking them to respect and keep to the formed trail, by use of a sign, is going to be less effective during a race. Mayhaps an approach to the organiser to find some way to corral the competitors to the formed trail could be effective, and encompassing?
It has been said a few times in this thread that there are two entrances to the trail which could benefit from the proposed directional signage. I'm confused by this. To my eyes there appear to be at least 3 if not 5 offshoots to/from Bantry Bay road between the end of the carvings' fire trail entrance and the rooty exit just south of the walkway. I have observed riders entering these offshoot trails. Two tend to feed riders into the descending direction.
a) are these intentional breakout trails?
b) would there be benefit in closing these?
c) have they simply been overlooked in the discussion or are they deemed not deserving of attention or "officialising" with signage?
I have no intention of mucking with the work put in by Dreggsy and his cohort, just noting my observations.
BTW Thanks for the trail work. I've been inspired to get back on the bike after a layoff due to malaise and laziness, and this connector has made the Dam, Serrata, Gahnia group work really well for me.
The bottom section of TBP has also become a favourite for my daughter. She'd never really understood or been excited by riding off road until our laps this week. The mysterious nature of the trail, the inclusive attitudes of our fellow riders, and the gentle undulations have all helped to capture her imagination. I think we've trapped another convert, and at only 6. Give it a year and I'm hopeful she'll be up for a traditional lap of the dam.
i might be able to get some vinyl signage done if I can call a favour with some work mates.
Being old I well remember arguments between walkers and cyclists when cyclist wanted more access. I know it is tough when we get a sweet trail and end up having to share. But think how many more trails we'd have if everyone shared?
Signage indicating preferred direction and usage sound good. I don't think that they should say MTB only, but indicated that it is primarily an uphill MTB track should be ok. Up hill should be warned of potential oncoming traffic. Down hill could be reminded that the track is primarily up hill and take care / give way.
PM me if the vinyl is of interest. It won't be until the new year now and no guarantees at this point until I speak to the guys at work.
I initially designed the trail as an uphill connector trail once you ride seratta and ghania.
I actually do mind as to which way it was intended to ride, there's not much i can do apart from saying to people i meet coming downhill that it is an uphill trail.
I did have a bunch ask who was i to say in which direction it was to be ridden.
anyway ride your bikes and have fun,i also fixed the jump over the creek
rant and wine and rant over
Having spent a few days building the trail with Dreggsy, although admittedly not putting in anything like the same amount of time and effort, seeing the trail ridden, and enjoyed by so many people has been satisfying. However, it was built as an uphill track, and in an area with with less riders, people going in both directions would not be a problem, but given this is now an integral part of what is the busiest trail in Australia, constantly having people ride down when trying to ride up has become dangerous as well as frustrating. Both Dreggsy and myself have had guys try to tell us they are going the right way!. I have therefore just erected a few more directional signs and hopefully these will last a little longer than the good doctor's first attempt.
At the same time I have also attempted to re block the pointless short cuts that keep appearing. Whether these are made by runners, or slaves to strava that want to appear to have improved their personal best by missing out part of the trail, or by riders that don't have the ability to ride a feature and who don't want to, or are too lazy to become better riders by keep trying to master something, I will never know.
All I ask, is that you ride what we built, in the direction we built it to ride, and maybe perhaps stop to do a little maintenance occasionally.
And that you don't worry about whether you beat your fastest time every time you ride it. There's a saying that the best surfer out there is the one having the most fun. It would be nice to see that mantra on the trail.
Its a sweet bit of trail and I have only started riding it the last 6 months. I'm old and slow and have recently been keeping away from it at peak times so I can ride it with virtually no one else and not worry about slowing down others or getting run off the trail. Sunday mornings are crazy there with so many riders and guys going hell for leather either way, so I stopped riding then. Fortunately I only live 10 minutes away and can get to ride there after work or late Saturday or Sunday afternoon, if it wasnt for the cars on Wakehurst Parkway, I'd swear some of those sweet sections remind me of Sparrow Hill. I rode it every day from before Christmas to returning back to work this week and always look forward to tacking it onto the dam loop. Sorry, I ride it both ways, its too good!! Thanks for brining joy to someone late to MTB, as for the runners, well there are plenty of other options for them while much less for MTB. Well done to the trail builders, the signs were still up when I rode there yesterday afternoon.
I've had another response from the organiser, unfortunately returning his initial position, indicating he is going to press ahead with the event on the planned course through KC and Bewildered Possum. He's gone further and is encouraging us to put up signs to direct riders away from the trail while his event is in progress since - surprise - people keep taking his down.
Effectively, he's saying "we don't care if you built it, it's on public land so we're gonna use it for our event"
Seems arrogant to me.
Not surprised, though.
Why not report the event to the relevant land owner? If it is Crown Lans he will need permission to run the event. If it's council he'll need a DA.
If we start complaining too much to the relevant authorities wouldn't we run the risk of everyone being locked out?
I have no problems staying off the track for one morning when their event is on (plus any future events as they're not very regular). As long as there are signs stating the intended direction of the trail for future reference (to riders and runners outside of the event). We're stuck between a rock and a hard place on this one as it's an unofficial trail.
I've managed to broker a compromise where they're off the trail by 07:15 and we'll work together to find an alternative safe route for them to use for following rounds.
Gapped the new bench jump the other day. Both directions.