Overtaking

Tandems are a terrible idea and are against most race rules.

Had 1 show up to an 8hr once and the organisers made an exception to let them ride as they had traveled a fair way. Slow as hell and impossible to pass in single track, double motor and hard to catch on the fire road.

... they are the only way we can get the visually impaired on the track.

It would be a brave race director who turned down a tandem with a blind stoker!

Personally, I'd be prepared to live with the minor inconvenience just to see them getting out amongst it.

Unfortunately there are a few jobsworths in road racing who won't let them take part in races or events because tandems don't fit UCI rules. There's an anti-discrimination grenade in the making if ever I saw one.

I've been pretty quiet since kicking this whole thing off - but have had some thoughts messaged to me and also people speaking to me directly - all of it pertains to this 'blind tandem' scenario. The key here is the word 'Racing'. As in...

"...So on this subject.... what's the feeling about a tandem racing the mont? ....."

In actual fact, this 'race' business is the cause for concern with most of the issues with overtaking. People pay upwards of $100 to 'race'. The track are there all year round, so its not about 'riding' (other than very few events where it is only open for the 'race').

If you pin a number on, its a 'race', not a ride. I hear a lot of "we're not riding for sheep stations or anything" - well, if you arent there to go as fast as you can, why bother paying at all? What is at stake is not what affects how fast you ride - surely?

Will the tandem actually be 'racing', or merely riding? Because riding is CERTAINLY to be enoouraged. But at a time where the track is extremely busy, with one of the most prestigious 'RACES' in the year, in the dark - its probably not ideal. For anyone.

Just because you can enter, doesnt mean you should enter. Much the same with friends who ride the mtb for the very first time. Is a race the best place to try it out? Probably not. Friends dont let friends do that - because yes, they will get scared and intimidated. Racing is racing, and despite sounding elitist, racing is elitist. Because the fastest rider wins. Sure - its fun, but really, its only fun if you are actually 'racing' - if you are just bunting along - then surely its not as much fun as saving the x-hundred dollars and riding with your mates where there is room to ride?
Trail riding is a different kettle of fish all together.

... if you arent there to go as fast as you can, why bother paying at all?

Plenty of reasons:

1. Because your mates are all going and you don't want to miss out.
2. Because you don't have any mates and think a 'race' is a good place to meet some.
3. Because you love the vibe of a 'race' and to see loads of riders on track.
4. Because a 'race' gives you an excuse to get out of town, go camping, etc.
5. Because you are not confident enough to ride the course normally, but love the support you get during a 'race' (OK - maybe not applicable to a circuit, but certainly could apply to The Convict, etc).
6. Because the track may only be open for a 'race' (as Ants already mentioned).
7. Because you are too lazy to motivate yourself normally, but having a 'race' to prepare for provides encouragement you need.

... I could probably go on, but you get the idea

Given that the Mont is for teams of 4 or 6, would a tandem count as two riders or one?

That issue aside, I think that the Mont is one of the least suitable races for a tandem. Maybe the Wollombi Wild Ride, the Half Fling, the Convict 50, or anything else where there is plenty of fire trail / dirt road work. Plus they could start in a later wave or at the back and not hold anyone up if they were taking it slowly. Or power past everyone..... I have vague memories about being overtaken by a tandem on fire trail in the Fling one year.

I don't think a tandem would even fit around half the switchbacks on the Kowalski course and it had plenty of track in common with the Mont. With all the issues that have been canvassed about "passing", I don't think it would be a good idea on any "lap" type race.

With a vision impaired stoker it would be even harder. The rider on front would have to be both super-fit and a good communicator to keep the stoker prepared for the terrain being encountered with most off road riding.

Wow, I didn't think that question would stir up so much excellent discussion, though maybe it did help to get some very valid points out that were not voiced earlier in the thread.

One of the things I like about the MTB community is that it is inclusive and accepting. I've never been on a group ride where anyone was judged for the style, type or genre of their ride. Rigid, XC, klunker, DHer, k-mart special.... I've seen them all and on the same ride at times. It's not like road where I've seen guys snubbed because they didn't have carbon flarkles on their confabulator, or worse still wore a camelbak and 23 mm tyres at the same time.

The only racing I have ever been involved in where the slower guy was expected to give way to the faster racer is MTB. Sure the gentlemanly thing to do is not baulk the fast car in the entry to the straight, but! give buoy room to an upwind chasing boat on the same tack..... never!

The Mont rules seem to say it don't they. We're all (well mostly) hairy legged, dirty fingernailed, mud loving sweat hogs with fat or fattish tyres. and the joy of competing comes not only from making the podium, but from the thrill of the ride, the cameraderie, the escape from family commitments for a whole weekend, the entire experience. If you only get your buzz from being one of three teams, then I reckon you aren't getting your money's worth.

I can see the validity of comments re a two saddled barge in sniggle at night, so maybe first lap and last lap rights may be reserved, and I'll consider doing point to point racing, I suppose the cameraderie will come from having my team along for every pedal stroke instead of just in camp

One thing I don't understand though is if you (any gentle reader, not directed at you Ants) are really so uptight about having to get past other riders (and in any one race it's likely every podium team will pass the same nuff nuffs or an equal number of them anyway) why do you choose to ride single track at all. My roady mates, some of whom have won prestigious road races, never seem to be concerned with the slow riders just the elbows of the ones they are matched with.

Kit, Ventana have a fully suspended 29er beast that I'm looking at though I'm dreading lacing 44 spokes a wheel.

Wow slowpup - a 29er dually tandem! I hope it has short chainstays

Actually I seem to recall they had a 4-person tandem at the inaugural Back Yamma Big Foot. I didn't see it so it may have been the commentators making things up.

If you decide to proceed, bags the first night ride with you at Terrey Hills And I have a Park spoke tension meter if that helps with the wheelbuilding.

/thread hijack

I agree with Rob ( and the Mont webpage...).

I've done a fair few 100km races, a couple of Monts and some 8 hour races.

I'm slow. Very Slow.

I do the races for the vibe and experience and to push myself. I also ocassionally race against other slow guys ! I remember having an epic sprint finish at the end of the Dirtworks 100 a few years ago. I was probably in 895th place but my buddy and I were racing for dear life to beat the other one over the line... a whole years bragging rights were up for grabs.

I never hold anyone up ( I have a level of paranoia about people riding close behind me...) and always find a way to let people past even if it means I stop to let them do it.

With that being said, I expect other riders to show the same courtesy, irregardless of how fast they are ( or think they are )

I've paid my entry fee and I've paid for my bike and every component on it. If someone fast thinks I shouldn't be there because I'm not ' racing' at their standard, they should vote with their feet and boycot races which encourage mass participation.
I imagine their season would be pretty short though. Perhaps they could convince race organisers to just have elites only.....
I'm intrigued by the argument that someone is entitled to more ' clear track 'because they have trained hard for the race. Unless all of the slow guys are deliberately getting together to thwart your drive for the podium, you are racing he same conditions as everybody else. If someone beat you its probably because they trained harder, not because some old fat bloke held you up. (not that I'm in any way condoning delibarately holding people up...)

On the other issue, I remember riding alongside a tandem in the Angry Doctor ( 2008 ? ) Husband and wife team. Lovely people. At our end of the field, they were passing lots of people and nobody was trying to go past them. they were fast on the fire trails and fast on the singletrack ( some of it very tight ) they were fast up the hills and fast down the hills. They beat me and my riding buddies pretty easily. Everyone enjoyed having them there as I remember ( same goes for the unicyclists who also beat me...) I imagine that it could be more of an issue in a lap race but at the Mont, there is usually plenty of ' run off' space at the side of the track to let people past ( Being as slow as I am, I have more experience than most of letting people past...).

I wouldn't recommend trying a tandem at Mount Annan though....

CB

Apart from one Dickhead hotshot kid in a local shops kit who obviously couldn't handle being passed by someone twice his age, everyone was awesome and super polite.
I myself made an extra effort to thank everyone as I passed.
Education on both sides is the key!