My mate M... G.... did this one morning out of frustration at loosing a track we had been using for nearly two years
(I am not condoning his actions and was very surprised as he is no rebel) ,
He was seen by a ranger and had an embarrassing confrontation in front of his Missus that afternoon resulting in a $550 fine but avoiding a criminal conviction.
The stupid thing about this is the trail is now open only to bush walkers .
I have never seen a walker on this trail as it is to steep too walk in sections and ends up in a swamp then on to Deep creek why would a bush-walker drive up to a section of Mona Vale Rd where it is difficult to park , there are no views , it is full of leaches and no interesting fauna or flora
So now it lays waste with no one allowed to use it.
A complete lockout of riders will never work ,
Give us back some riding areas to protect the rest !
NPWS needs to work with the MTB community to manage existing trails
We will contribute to maintenance and management of sensitive areas and be the eyes and ears for them for inappropriate activities in the Parks
Great work again NPWS my tax dollars at work for me
MY ANGRY RANT FOR THE DAY
as this blanket closure of tracks annoys me I reckon this was the stupidest track ever built around here and is an example of poor track design at it's worst. Too steep for the soil type, prone to erosion and finishing in a swamp then on to a major walking track in nat park in full view!!
It was then advertised on here for all to see and ride. I reckon this was one of the main reasons NPWS got their backs up, cause a lot of irate walkers use the deep creek track and would have seen it and mtn bikers using it.
You are spot on Goatman. When people started talking about this I told them it was illegal, stay away, etc, etc. I assume there's loads of talk on Farkin about it too?
Submitted by jedijunglesnow on Wed, 22/10/2008 - 11:12.
Not to stir the pot or anything, but if I recall when it was mentioned originally that it wasn't a good idea to be posting this track and directions to it, and indeed other illegal "secret" tracks on here, the people posting them got all defensive and said there was absolutely nothing wrong with it. Started quite an argument if I recall correctly.
Now look - and did anyone read the article in Aus Mtbing mag mentioning this site ( not by name) and this very issue? talked about "hot laps" too.
This is a great site, don't get me wrong, but the consequences of putting everything so public need to be considered.
about me jedi? Well, after a ten year break from cycling id say i was pretty green to all the politics and protocol of mtb'ing in australia. I didn't mean to stir up shit and dont think i deserved the blasting i got. A polite private message night have been a little nicer to a newcomer to the site!
Submitted by jedijunglesnow on Wed, 22/10/2008 - 11:50.
I can't even remember who was involved, sorry.
But secret tracks are secret, this isn't just an issue of politics and protocol of mtb'ing in australia. Surfing, snowboarding, lots of other sports have secret spots.
Agreed, a polite private message might have been a little nicer to a newcomer to the site, but if I recall there were a few people that said this track should've posted for all to see, not just you ( if it was you, as I said, can't really remember).
Submitted by ar_junkie on Wed, 22/10/2008 - 11:52.
Not wanting trails to be made public so they can remain 'secret' and having a public record of trails (illegal or not) are, in my opinion, 2 very different issues.
I personally don't agree with concept of secret trails on many levels, unless it's on private property, as it drives the message of "It's not illegal because only a select few know about it" and more people begin creating their own secret trails...
This snowballs into the other area's that majority of MTBer's seemingly try to address i.e. safety, enviro impact etc.
Submitted by ar_junkie on Wed, 22/10/2008 - 12:08.
I.e.
Not to stir the pot or anything, but if I recall when it was mentioned originally that it wasn't a good idea to be posting this track and directions to it, and indeed other illegal "secret" tracks on here
...did anyone read the article in Aus Mtbing mag mentioning this site ( not by name) and this very issue...
This is a great site, don't get me wrong, but the consequences of putting everything so public need to be considered.
This is a general statement, not directed at you Jedi , but we seem to love quoting stats on how many bicycles were sold in relation to cars and how MTB is a growing sport (which it is and I love the stats) but ask yourself the question, "Where are these people going to ride?"
By having accessible records we not only help spread the load of traffic on notorious trails but encourage more people into the sport. Did that author from Aus MTB complain when Huw Flower published his trail book?
nothing will come out of it and everyone will keep crying about riding at oxford falls, by the time we all stop riding there will be a new group of younger riders keen to build there own trails, not much we can do about that, someoen told me that stromlo get 3million a yeah spent onit, there is no way in hell that will ever happen here (have you seen pittwater rd) lol. rant over, cheers lads........
Adrian... for someone who's livelihood (ok - or part of it) depends on the sport of cycling you aren't doing yourself any favours with that attitude.
From what I read there was talking, and agreement on a couple of points. However small you think that it, it's a whole lot better than two groups of people ignoring each other and getting more and letting more and more angst build up. See here:
but imo thats the facts jack-(rob) i would love to see it happen as much as anyone else, but the nsw gov cant even get busses and trains to work right, why will they bother to build a mtb track its not in there budget.
Mates of mine went to that meeting (I was in QLD) and said it was quite a positive thing. A set of rules for trail manners was drawn up and both residents and riders were able to get their point across and get a better understanding each sides issues.
I have been riding the tracks around northern beaches for 2 1/2 years. It really pisses me of when tracks are closed (due to erosion).
Yet you are still allowed to walk, run and take horses on these tracks. I have not met a mountain biker who will cut up or break up a track nor have I come across an mtb who would leave rubbish around.
The only reason I can see why tracks are closed is the vocal minority.
We as a collection get blamed when moto bikes cut up tracks. Who stands up for us?
When we meet a horse rider we are meant to get of our bikes and wait for the horse to pass, why? If you cannot control your animal it should not be on a public track where it will interact with walkers {some kids} and others.
Why are horses allowed to shit over the track and not clean up?
When I came to au it was the land of no worries now it is the land of wingers if some are having fun let’s stop it.
This erosion or you are near aboriginal carvings excuse is just that a good reason to stop fun.
Erosion has been happening for the life time of the earth, one machine carving up a new road or housing estate will impact on erosion in one day what the average mbt will impact in one lifetime.
If the NSWP were so concerned with aboriginal carvings would you not think they would be better protected with a walkway around them and a pathway away from them?
This is just my opinion I know it may upset some but I hope others will find comfort.
Agreed... so rather than sit and winge on here write to the powers that be and explain things to them, and what you would like to see changed. Exactly what I did earlier today.
Lists of minister names to write your own thoughts to (please be constructive):
Its always stated that the powers that be read this site and that we shouldnt post any "secret tracks" "hot laps" or "ride meetings on grey area trails"
my question is
do the powers that be also read all of this site ?
do they read where the majority of us are concerned about our sport and are generally conservationists who want to preserve and care for the areas we ride in so we can one day buy our kids expensive bikes and take them out with us. ?
and why do the powers that be never post. I too have written the letters and sent the emails. all to no answer.
i post on here and i post on Farkin
i regard these two sites as mecca for MTB
is it too much to ask to get a rep from some sort of dept or power that be to grow a set and respond to the fears and worries that i and many of the community (not just MTB) have about park and trail closures.
and before i get slammed by the Mob
im not ranting im just merely a little tired of us always seeming to fill forums of complaint and letter writing.
im not suggesting anything im just asking
have a great day and i look forward to hearing from Nathan the peoples champion soon
Kurt
Kurto
P.S im not holdin my breath
and the
"I ride MTB and i pay taxes" Bumper stickers will be out soon
My mate M... G.... did this one morning out of frustration at loosing a track we had been using for nearly two years
(I am not condoning his actions and was very surprised as he is no rebel) ,
He was seen by a ranger and had an embarrassing confrontation in front of his Missus that afternoon resulting in a $550 fine but avoiding a criminal conviction.
The stupid thing about this is the trail is now open only to bush walkers .
I have never seen a walker on this trail as it is to steep too walk in sections and ends up in a swamp then on to Deep creek why would a bush-walker drive up to a section of Mona Vale Rd where it is difficult to park , there are no views , it is full of leaches and no interesting fauna or flora
So now it lays waste with no one allowed to use it.
A complete lockout of riders will never work ,
Give us back some riding areas to protect the rest !
NPWS needs to work with the MTB community to manage existing trails
We will contribute to maintenance and management of sensitive areas and be the eyes and ears for them for inappropriate activities in the Parks
Great work again NPWS my tax dollars at work for me
MY ANGRY RANT FOR THE DAY
as this blanket closure of tracks annoys me I reckon this was the stupidest track ever built around here and is an example of poor track design at it's worst. Too steep for the soil type, prone to erosion and finishing in a swamp then on to a major walking track in nat park in full view!!
It was then advertised on here for all to see and ride. I reckon this was one of the main reasons NPWS got their backs up, cause a lot of irate walkers use the deep creek track and would have seen it and mtn bikers using it.
You are spot on Goatman. When people started talking about this I told them it was illegal, stay away, etc, etc. I assume there's loads of talk on Farkin about it too?
been surprisingly little on Farkin in general about the track closures.
Not to stir the pot or anything, but if I recall when it was mentioned originally that it wasn't a good idea to be posting this track and directions to it, and indeed other illegal "secret" tracks on here, the people posting them got all defensive and said there was absolutely nothing wrong with it. Started quite an argument if I recall correctly.
Now look - and did anyone read the article in Aus Mtbing mag mentioning this site ( not by name) and this very issue? talked about "hot laps" too.
This is a great site, don't get me wrong, but the consequences of putting everything so public need to be considered.
"hot Laps" Jedi.
Those whole different can of worms
Let's leave them out of it
about me jedi? Well, after a ten year break from cycling id say i was pretty green to all the politics and protocol of mtb'ing in australia. I didn't mean to stir up shit and dont think i deserved the blasting i got. A polite private message night have been a little nicer to a newcomer to the site!
I can't even remember who was involved, sorry.
But secret tracks are secret, this isn't just an issue of politics and protocol of mtb'ing in australia. Surfing, snowboarding, lots of other sports have secret spots.
Agreed, a polite private message might have been a little nicer to a newcomer to the site, but if I recall there were a few people that said this track should've posted for all to see, not just you ( if it was you, as I said, can't really remember).
Not wanting trails to be made public so they can remain 'secret' and having a public record of trails (illegal or not) are, in my opinion, 2 very different issues.
I personally don't agree with concept of secret trails on many levels, unless it's on private property, as it drives the message of "It's not illegal because only a select few know about it" and more people begin creating their own secret trails...
This snowballs into the other area's that majority of MTBer's seemingly try to address i.e. safety, enviro impact etc.
What secret trails?
There was only ever this one on all of the Northern Beaches, and it hasn't been a secret for a long time.
I.e.
This is a general statement, not directed at you Jedi
, but we seem to love quoting stats on how many bicycles were sold in relation to cars and how MTB is a growing sport (which it is and I love the stats) but ask yourself the question, "Where are these people going to ride?"
By having accessible records we not only help spread the load of traffic on notorious trails but encourage more people into the sport. Did that author from Aus MTB complain when Huw Flower published his trail book?
congrats!
does anyone have a link to the aus mtbing thing, was it critical, what was it saying and in what context?
its near impossible to find info about riding from anywhere else.
everything about mtbing areas in oz seems a little secretive and obstructive, particularly the way parks are managed.
surely managing is just that, you manage the use, not prohibit.....?
eee, when i were a lad, back in blighty......
On a slightly lighter note, has there been any feed back RE: the meeting/debate at Belrose the other week 06/10/08 ?
nothing will come out of it and everyone will keep crying about riding at oxford falls, by the time we all stop riding there will be a new group of younger riders keen to build there own trails, not much we can do about that, someoen told me that stromlo get 3million a yeah spent onit, there is no way in hell that will ever happen here (have you seen pittwater rd) lol. rant over, cheers lads........
Adrian... for someone who's livelihood (ok - or part of it) depends on the sport of cycling you aren't doing yourself any favours with that attitude.
From what I read there was talking, and agreement on a couple of points. However small you think that it, it's a whole lot better than two groups of people ignoring each other and getting more and letting more and more angst build up. See here:
http://nobmob.com/node/6456#comment-21854
but imo thats the facts jack-(rob) i would love to see it happen as much as anyone else, but the nsw gov cant even get busses and trains to work right, why will they bother to build a mtb track its not in there budget.
Mates of mine went to that meeting (I was in QLD) and said it was quite a positive thing. A set of rules for trail manners was drawn up and both residents and riders were able to get their point across and get a better understanding each sides issues.
PS. The torp Totems are great so far
I have been riding the tracks around northern beaches for 2 1/2 years. It really pisses me of when tracks are closed (due to erosion).
Yet you are still allowed to walk, run and take horses on these tracks. I have not met a mountain biker who will cut up or break up a track nor have I come across an mtb who would leave rubbish around.
The only reason I can see why tracks are closed is the vocal minority.
We as a collection get blamed when moto bikes cut up tracks. Who stands up for us?
When we meet a horse rider we are meant to get of our bikes and wait for the horse to pass, why? If you cannot control your animal it should not be on a public track where it will interact with walkers {some kids} and others.
Why are horses allowed to shit over the track and not clean up?
When I came to au it was the land of no worries now it is the land of wingers if some are having fun let’s stop it.
This erosion or you are near aboriginal carvings excuse is just that a good reason to stop fun.
Erosion has been happening for the life time of the earth, one machine carving up a new road or housing estate will impact on erosion in one day what the average mbt will impact in one lifetime.
If the NSWP were so concerned with aboriginal carvings would you not think they would be better protected with a walkway around them and a pathway away from them?
This is just my opinion I know it may upset some but I hope others will find comfort.
Ignore him, rob and goatman. There are always the "It can't be done" -ers. And they're right, they can't do it.
*You* can. Get the right people around you, the kind who ask "How can we..?" questions when faced with a challenge, and go for it.
Agreed... so rather than sit and winge on here write to the powers that be and explain things to them, and what you would like to see changed. Exactly what I did earlier today.
Lists of minister names to write your own thoughts to (please be constructive):
http://nobmob.com/node/2762
http://nobmob.com/node/6645
Its always stated that the powers that be read this site and that we shouldnt post any "secret tracks" "hot laps" or "ride meetings on grey area trails"
my question is
do the powers that be also read all of this site ?
do they read where the majority of us are concerned about our sport and are generally conservationists who want to preserve and care for the areas we ride in so we can one day buy our kids expensive bikes and take them out with us. ?
and why do the powers that be never post. I too have written the letters and sent the emails. all to no answer.
i post on here and i post on Farkin
i regard these two sites as mecca for MTB
is it too much to ask to get a rep from some sort of dept or power that be to grow a set and respond to the fears and worries that i and many of the community (not just MTB) have about park and trail closures.
and before i get slammed by the Mob
im not ranting im just merely a little tired of us always seeming to fill forums of complaint and letter writing.
im not suggesting anything im just asking
have a great day and i look forward to hearing from Nathan the peoples champion soon
Kurt
Kurto
P.S im not holdin my breath
and the
"I ride MTB and i pay taxes" Bumper stickers will be out soon
that many of the rangers on the ground agree with you but they can't do so publicly as they need to comply with the policies driven from the top down