Report from Second round of MTB Discussion paper forum

Thanks for the update Rob,

Much of the opposition to MTB in Parks comes from a general conservatism (as opposed to conservation). Things have been done a certain way in the past - and therefore should not change. While we should be wary of change for changes sake, when there is a demonstrable need then the change should be catered for.

I've discussed the situation of MTB access to Sydney Catchement areas with a friend who worked there. I asked why it was OK to walk, camp, fish, sail, canoe in certain areas - but not ride a bike. The answer is purely historical - these permitted activities existed in the areas prior to them being catchments!

As for the idea that MTB should not be in Parks as we use "equipment" - piffle! The use of moderm equipment in hiking is widespread and desirable - eg use of modern, lightweight stoves reduces burning of wood for fires.

We must all continue to present MTB as a reasonable and appropriate use of Parks!!

Keep up the good work all.

Ray Rice
XC VP WSMTB

I was a bit worried when I saw I was the only mtber at the Nowra forum on Monday but it seemed to go pretty well. The facilitator seemed very fair, as Anthony Burton was the first time around, but was definitely more prepared to cut off a long winded point than AB was. The way two of the attendees in particular expressed their views I could certainly see why they didn't voice any concerns during the first round in Nowra that they also attended. But they still had that initial opportunity that everyone else had. Overall, I don't think anything was raised that would really add any weight to any argument that has already been made.

You'll find most of the "extreme" conversationalist also object to dedicated walking trails, preferring to "zero track" which is what I tend to do more often than not when walking in NPs.

Zero tracking is good ideologically but humans are lazy and will follow the straightest/easiest path thus zero tracking over time tends to lead to un planned trail forming.... Much like what happened in mountain biking up until recently where we took the lead in planned, sustainably build trails...

Quoted - 9. Speed versus enjoyment. (Mtbers cannot be enjoying NPs at the speed they ride at).

what a load of rubbish lol

not all riders are competion riders believe it or not some riders actually take family members riding too

Was a much quieter meeting than the first one with less than 30 attendees. Around 6-8 council people, 6 MTB advocates, 1 horse person with the rest being associated with a variety of environmental groups. The guys from the Colong Foundation were not present.

We split into 4 or so tables with an NPWS representative at each table and had about an hour of general chat on the 3 issues most important to each person at the table. The issues were then consolidated and the facilitator chose subjects that hadn't been reviewed in depth before and allocated them to each table. The table Hawkeye and I were on got to talk about ways to stop the spread of disease and pests.

Overall there was more in common between the MTB community, NPWS and the moderate environmentalists that disagreements. There was one old guy on our table from Hornsby who was misinformed and argumentative. Doubt we changed his mind much. Also found it surprising that he was happy to say he had been working on the same area for 20 years and still hadn't been able to rehabilitate it. Personally I would take that as a hint that his approach might need to change.

The NPWS guy on our table was based at Bobbin Head, rode to work and said he had done some MTB events so was pretty supportive of our position.

At our table it was all very sedated. I got there late, and got a quick read over the table listed "issues" so far, added a couple, and then they were presented. We had Ranger Michelle, Mr Little, Margery, Aboriginal Land Rep, and a couple other fit looking grey haired people. Several ride. Discussion was varied. Mr little explained that he encountered a bike on a single track coming down a grade at significant speed and that he needed to stand still to let the rider avoid him and save possible injury. So then we talked about:
-How that could be a trail design related
-How sustainably built trails can contain a riders speed
-That higher speed is more likely on FT etc.
-A rider can avg 9 km/h on really enjoyable tight technical single track.
-There are some trail blunders in Manly Dam and how it was not designed for the purpose
-Awaba, or Appin (there is nothing local) could be better examples for Mr Little to go look at
-Funding
-Conservation
-We talked about locations where people are apparently riding over some aboriginal carvings. Sounds like people might not be aware of it, or it needs some serious barriers (telegraph poles) or something around it. I don't know where exactly he was talking about.

Our topic was Education. We talked pretty much solely on education for riders in regards to sustainable riding and increased awareness for riders in regards to the bush etc. To work in with some groups and have some more 'bush learning' flavored oriented riding events. More cross pollination between groups etc. Maybe we all just have a huge party and get naked? Nah we didn't talk about that last one. Code of Conduct communication methods etc. We didn't really get to education for anybody else. I think the night was a bit of awareness for the non believers so they can get it off their chests. One lady actually questions the stated increases in off road cycling in the Discussion Paper. I explained how schools now have teams for it and compete. Isn't that due to increase? She gave me some kind of confused look that I think the Jehovahs/Breathren? who knocked on my door had after a bit of a chat about the meaning of life, and then it was time up.

Arrived late due to work commitments. Was ushered to the 1 remaining empty seat which was on ps's table. I was glad to be able to give him some support, as the misinformation was flowing freely.

White-Haired Old Bloke ps referred to was being deliberately obtuse and provocative, I felt, and was giving Horse Lady a serve as well as the two of us. His wry smile as he delivered some of his comments was the tell-tale.

Horse Lady seemed well-informed about both bikes and walkers, and challenged WHOB several times over evidence.

NIMBY woman on ps's right was confused on a lot of facts, and ps was a real gentleman in the way he gently corrected her. An elderly woman between me and NIMBY was concerned about walkers being frightened by mountain bikers appearing unexpectedly and was against sharing trails, and against building more trails. There wasn't going to be a lot that could be done to encourage a change of view there unfortunately. ps and I took pains to explain several times that World Trail meant World's Best Practice in design and construction, because that what was needed to ensure the trails were built ecnomically and sustainably, and that events with large numbers of people from all over the world hadn't actually entered our heads. I was tempted to thank them for the suggestion, but managed to resist.

The NPWS guy on our table's primary concern was how they were going to pay for it, however much it was going to be. He seemed quite reasonable about the prospect of holding events on NPWS trails, taking up the discussion about environmental impact assessments when I mentioned Oxfam walking and trail-running events on NPWS managed lands. That seemed to settle down NIMBY and the woman on my left. WHOB then piped up with "why can't bikes stick to fire trails?", but was more quiet when I responded with "why can't walkers stick to fire trails???".

Once the green light is eventually given for mtb trails, it seems we are going to have to get behind NPWS and start lobbying State and Federal pollies for increases to NPWS budgets. Getting the trails into policy is just going to be getting the rocket to the launch pad. To get it off the ground and into orbit is going to require fuel ... in other words, funding. So it looks like our work is just starting.

An interesting evening. Quite amusing that Colong Foundation didn't have the kahunas to turn up.

How does that equate for Abseilers and rock climbers, both with their back to the vista, base jumpers, whoa now they could not possibly apprciate the view at 140 kph?
Many thanks to all you advocates that attended these meetings, well done!