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Fined...but that's not what hurt
OK, story goes like this. I was riding to work today at 5:30 am for an early morning meeting. I usually stick to the back streets riding from Allambie Heights to North Sydney but decided to take Military Road as (a) I was running late for my meeting, (b) there was little to no traffic on Military Road at that hour and (c) I happended to be able to tack on to the wheel of someone much fitter than myself. When we approached the traffic lights next to the bus stop near the Oaks, the light turned red and we both stopped. I waited and there were no cars (and no pedestrians) and I decided to ride along the pedestrian crossing and up on to the footpath. I then road along the footpath until the next cross street and then moved back on to Military Road. I then continued along what became Falcon Street next to North Sydney Oval before hearing a siren behind me. Policeman gets out and read the riot act to me. I immediately accepted that I had down the wrong thing and apologised. He then issued me with a $57 fine. While frustrating, I had knowingly done the wrong thing and had to pay the consequences. That I can live with. However, as he handed me the fine, I said something which I knew was not going to attract a friendly response, but I certainly wasn't expecting what followed. I asked him to assure me that he would be just as vigilant in bringing to justice those drivers who hurl abuse at me and cut me off on a regular basis. To which he said, "You cyclists are all the same. You expect drivers to show you respect but you don't even obey the road rules. Sydney streets weren't built for cyclists. If you can't keep up with the traffic then here's a suggestion, get off the road". I find it quite concerning that the very people who are there to supposedly protect us have this attitude towards cyclists. Mick
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I don't know if it is illegal or not to ride on the pavement, but... Do the police suggest you "get off the road" when handing out speeding fines? Sadly I recently paid some 'I was paying attention to the road conditions and users, not my speedo' tax and the answer is: no they don't.
You have his details on the ticket, right? Write to his superior at the station and demand an explanation?
Law onto themselves.
I have to go to court next month cause I was apparently doing 145kph, which was estimated by the police officer on the F3 from over a K away, suffice to say the Court Notice says I was doing 138 kph, they dont even know what speed I was going but it doesnt stop them from trying to prosecute me etc.
so you stopped at the red light on the road, then moved to pavement and crossed pedestrian crossing on the little green man. Then moved back from the pavement onto the road?
I dont get what's illegal about that? (assuming you checked it was safe to move between road and pavement)
I do that sometimes. Avoids the red light, but as far as I can tell not illegal as you are in pedestrian mode when moving through the intersection.
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Did you actually dismount, and then walk the bike?
And yes, riding on the footpath is illegal unless you are under the age of 12. Or, accompanying a child under the age of 12. I choose to break this law when crossing over certain bridges where there is NO space for me, & two trucks.
OK, to answer the questions. I stopped at the red light. Rode my bike between the pedestrian white lines against a don't walk and then on to the footpath on the other side of the intersection. Ticket says "Not stop at red [illegible] crossing light". To your point Rob, there is nothing on the ticket to indicate the identity of the police officer.
Use the ticket number to find out the issuing station the officer is based at. It is your right to know who issued the ticket. It will likely either be Mosman or North Sydney stations. A simple polite call should illicit the info you require. Alternatively, just post a duplicate letter to both stations.
....your name or did he ask too see your licence ? I would have given a false name & address .
I would have said with a funny accent "I have no licence to drive thats why I ride bike-me have no I.D"
He asked whether I had any ID in my bag and I said yes as I assumed he would search it.
I might try and track down the issuing station.
Be very careful lying to cops about your name, especially ones that are cranky (like this guy appears to be).
I'm not sure but you don't have to have ID on you but if they ask for your details you have to cough up.
Where is this track “Military Road” that you speak of? Can’t find it in rides section??
I’m a regular commuter to North Sydney (and someone who stays away from Military Road), In my opinion its exactly actions like yours here (running a red light, ridding on the footpath wearing Lycra..) that gives cyclists a bad name and as a cyclist I then share the results of the frustrations that your action causes when drivers swear at me or try to bully me off the road with their cars.
The policeman may not be entitled to voice his opinion? even after you engaged him and practically told him how to do his job?? (you know that you’d probably get shot for that in Victoria). If we want police to be human and do human things like exercise some discretion every now and again, then we are going to get the other human behavior things like opinions, anger, frustration... You really want your police to be human robots with a camera and a gun? Someone who shuts the F$%k up and gives you your ticket(s) with no questions asked? Go argue with some speed cameras; they don’t get all lippy and opinionated.
Be sure to post your response from the police.
Unfortunately he is not alone in his view of cyclists. It's not difficult to see where it comes from as anyone who commutes to the city or rides in general knows.... doesn't make his biast view right though. I frequently see cyclists with a total disregard for the rules of the road, red lights mean nothing, pedsestrian crossings are for practicing bike skills and handling techniques, undertaking a car thats trying to turn left, the list goes on all without any common sense.
Until cyclists as a whole start to obey the road rules there will always be this attitude, it frustrates the hell out of me!
Rant over, time for a shower!
Unfortunately it's human nature for us to assume that people who look or act different to us are all the same and this is one of the reasons that cyclists have a bad name with the general public.
I am amazed by the parochial attitude of some cyclists who expect consideration from other road users but are not willing to show any themselves. This morning I got the ferry to work instead of cycling and had to avoid a cyclist who sped through the walkway in front of Customs House ringing his bell to warn pedestrians and forcing several to stop or move out of his way. As a cyclist I thought that he was a fool but several people would have had their prejudices about cyclists reinforced.
The OPs infiringement seems pretty minor but I suspect that he suffered on behalf of many other more selfish cyclists who have gone unpunished. At that time in the morning the policeman would be nearing the end of his shift and who knows what he had dealt with through the night. It doesn't make it right to pick on an easy target but it might help to explain it. I'd think about what you are trying to achieve by tracking down the policeman and making a complaint about his comment. Are you trying to ensure that he doesn't show discretion in the future and books all cyclists for any infringements however minor they may be as that's a likely outcome, assuming that you can convince somone in authority that he has done something wrong by voicing what many people consider to be a reasonable opinion?
I get really pissed off when I see cyclists go through red lights (or disobey obvious road rules in general). In my opinion, it's just as bad to see a cyclist that was riding on the road, then try to disquise his bad act by moving to the foot path.
If you want respect... Earn It!!!
I've since stepped up my training regeme and started commuting to work on a roady. I found that people can be quite accomodating if you show other road users a bit of respect. For instance, when coming up to a red light, if there are cars ahead of me, I don't cue jump (although I'm pretty sure I am allowed to on a bicycle), I just wait behind the car infront of me, 9 times out of 10 the car behind me always gives me a bit more room than I need. Obviously it doesn't always happen, but I was pleasently surprised at the frequency it does. Add to this, my own driving attitude changes, if I see a rider obeying the rules vs not obeying them. They may also cop an earful from me.
I've found that when you're riding in a lane, it's best to ride like you're a car - stop at lights, wait behind other cars, keep on the road, overtake with signals etc. Like other comments have said, this earns respect and a safer journey for all.
I you are over 12 or not riding with someone under 12 YOU ARE BREAKING THE LAW! - It is that simple.
I do not condone the attitude of motorists and the police officer you came across but somehow this message has to get through, if we as a community wish to be treated better and stop hearing what a pain in the arse cyclists are we have to earn that respect. If someone on a motorbike had ridden onto the pavement to take advantage of a pedestrian crossing and then hopped back onto the road you would be fuming, in the eyes of the law that is no different to a bike doing it.
We cannot and will not be due this respect until we as a community think we are above and beyond the law or can pick and choose which bits of the law we adhere to.
I agree with all these comments. As you can see from my original post, I wasn't trying to defend my actions (although I do put it in the minor category given it was 5:30 am with no cars or pedestrians in sight and I did come to a complete stop before heading onto the footpath). My objection was to the officer's comments which cannot be defended.
I think Obmal summed it up.
Mick re-read what Ob said. You took the first punch, then whinge when the cop hits back. Unbelievable?????
If it was my next door neighbour who said that to me, I wouldn't have blinked, but coming from someone in authority who is responsible for, among other things, ensuring your safety on the road, comments like "get off the road if you can't keep up with cars" is a little worrisome. If you had have heard this guy speak to me right from the get go, you would have sensed that he hated cyclists long before I asked him to assure me that he was just as vigilant in picking up non compliant drivers. And provocation is certainly no defence for a person in a public role to express such prejudiced views. You guys aren't cops by any chance?
I dont really understand what your looking to achieve from this thread, you admit you did wrong by riding up on the payment and then provoke a police officer by saying oh I hope you pick up non compliant drivers, whilst I appreciate that the police officer shouldnt have said that you were clearly in the wrong.
I am not much of a fan of the police at the best of times, due to a few run in's i have had with them in the last 12 months but I dont think you have much grounds for complaint. Unfortunatly as with any job you are always going to have a few bad apples and people always have prejudices, however I would be willing to bet that if you had apoligised for what you did and just taken the slap on the wrists, he probably wouldnt have said anything.
Funnily enough, I have found with police officers 9 times out of 10, if you have done wrong and just admit you have done wrong and be decent about it to them and polite, they are normally pretty good about it.
just a couple of points........
1) why has logan dealt wth the police 10 times! and what did happen on that one time???
and
2)surely this is further proof that tarmac promotes evil!
stay rough, stay in the bush, stay alive!
I commute to the city from the Northern Beaches every day and agree with everything everyone has said about being respectful and law abiding as you would if you were driving but there is a small grey area. Unfortunately bikes don't set off lights. If you roll up to a set of lights and they are not on a timer to rotate the green, they will stay red unless a car comes up triggers the green for you. I leave early on a lot of days and that means that there aren't necessarily cars around so what is one to do? Am I supposed to push the button for the pedestrians? We are saying that riding on the footpath is illegal and I agree, I am not a pedestrian. Some may not even have a pedestrian crossing to push the button. There are at least 4 sets of lights that I can have to ride through depending on my route which I either have to wait and hope a car comes along or ride through the red. I would not ride through the red at lights I know are on a timer or where there are cars waiting/arriving that will trigger the lights but in other cases, our roads and their lack of catering for cyclists effectively force you to break the law one way or another.
good point Dave I often use the pedestrian button early in the morning, it also feels safer than stopping in the middle of the road and hoping you don't get cleaned up from behind! because we all know " I didn't see him"is good enough.
Report the lightsets that aren't set off by a bike. A bike is a vehicle, so they *should* cater to bikes. I've found sitting in the middle of the detection loop along the centreline cut in the tarmac will do the job nearly all the time.
There is a link somewhere from one of the state road authorities that recommends this. Your alloy hoops should set it off. Will try and find it later.
The only exception on my route home from Sydney Olympic Park is the intersection of Charles St and Victoria Road Ryde.
After all you'r the only one I have seen turn up for a ride lately with an infringement notice in hand
Maybe I need to get myself a big old heavy steel roadie instead of my current carbon one. I was just told that I should get myself a "neodymium magnet" and stick it under the bike frame should do the trick!