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Loose rocks @ Lake Parra
I'm not sure if it was kids being kids or walkers trying to deter riders or mtb'ers in for a challenge.
But can the asshats who are putting large loose rocks right in the middle of downhill lines at Lake Parra please ... dont!
We spend a lot of time maintaining these trails for everyone's enjoyment and we have a good dialogue with the rangers.
I saw kids on a family ride who had these rocks flung back at each other and a boy fall off.
Not to mention my own otb at a section I've done a hundred times.
It's not random because they are strategically placed and I doubt very much it is walkers or kids because some sections are specifically hidden for local mtbers. And with these klandathu rocks found at these sections amongst other very convenient places, its raised eyebrows amongst local riders.
If you get your jollies by seeing riders get hurt, you're a sicko and will get angry birded by one of these rocks one of these days.
This goes for building and modifying trails as well. Just leave it to the fairies that know the game!
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Shame you have to share it though
This message would probably be better coming from the land manager though - can you get the friendly rangers to put up something official on their site (if they even have one)?
Best not to escalate. It's my local and one of those places we've managed to keep under the radar but if mtb riding becomes an issue we'll probably get banned in a flash.
This just goes to show... if you think the trails you are riding are official don't take a friendly ranger's word for it. Official should be properly official, with paperwork and everything. That way when stuff like this happens the rangers should be able to sort it out.
Otherwise you'll just end up in a mess (see Unauthorised trail construction can only end badly). I know this thread isn't about construction but think unless things are properly official you're going to end up with the same problems
With the trail consisting of a number of different reserves. It falls within different a number of jurisdictions. Parra, Hills & Hornsby.
Given that its State and that Lake Parra itself has so many various users. The rangers there are very relaxed and arent seen all that often but the feel you get is "eh" and a shrug of the shoulders sorta response.
There's a maze of trails there from single to firetrail etc but there's nothing much the rangers do about it as normally it is residents building themselves a path thoroughfare through each of the reserves.
I think its the general consensus that it be kept this way and prefer not to make a big deal of it.
Just wanted for the assclowns who are placing these rocks in convenient positions to sod off!
Did you read that post about illegal construction?
I'll say again: without official access provision, sooner or later some busy body is going to complain to the land manager and you are going to be officially shut out.
You are in a good position here though. Approach the land managers... all of them... and explain that they have a great recreational resource here that costs them basically nothing. Explain how this can bring revenue to the area through visitation and has major health benefits. Explain that while they might be worried about litigation Manly Dam, which is the most heavily used track in Sydney, has never seen any collision between riders and other users and there is no record of Warringah council ever being sued over this. Explain that you'd like to see things made official to firstly prevent the need for unofficial use and so that people, knowing this is now an official resource, will show it more respect and know where to come for information and advice.
Either that or continue as is until a conflict situation occurs (and sounds like you're not far off).
@Rob, I agree that illegal trail building will most probably not turn out well. The problem I see with Lake Parramatta is similar to Lane Cove. We used to have plenty of single track available including what I rate as the best trail in Sydney until LP started becoming popular by mountain bikers and eventually the park rangers erected signage stopping bikes from using the single track. Some of those signed include $3000 penalty. Now all that's left are the fire trails.
Parramatta Park is similar in that walkers outnumber cyclists 100 - 1 and as there aren't too many of us out there I think nobody worries too much about us. I for one make sure I say hi to every walker I pass to keep the peace. There is one very tight single track circling the lake and I'm sure if ever it became a battle we'd be banned in the blink of an eye.
The illegal trail building @flubberghust refers to is a small, well hidden area on the high side of the normal trails in thick bush that backs onto some industrial area so it is unlikely bushwalkers or residents would find it unless they are looking for a quiet place to have a dump. Not that I'm for illegal trail building but I have ridden it and it is very well built and very bloody hard to find so don't believe it would be something that would cause conflict with locals. I've never seen walkers or riders in that spot.
I really think if we raised our heads the authorities would probably do what Lane Cove did and decree that cyclists shouldn't have been in the park in the first place.
Oh dont get me wrong, I'm all for legal trails and open dialogue with the land managers and yes, illegal trail building is never worth in the long run.
However very much like the Dam where walkers and bikers have gotten along for eons at LP. Until someone raises an issue about it, is basically when councilors will start getting involved. I'm all for against this as we've seen what some anti-mtb councilors have done over the years. And like Fatboy, we make every conscious effort to be courteous and walk our rigs where there's walkers around on the same track.
When a park like this is multi-used by various users and when families and novices start getting into mtb as well, the awareness of LP being a higher safety risk is then highlighted even further. We then have some overzealous councilor then intervene and ruin it for everyone, ala thy name is Rik Hart!
All I'm saying is that by placing intentional obstacles right in the line of riders which includes these novices and family group rides, it will then create a need for bureaucratic intervention. I for one prefer the latter not to take place.
All in all, the rangers know about our presence and are fine with it. Walkers, we get along with and family groups from whom the rangers love... are also getting into the sport as well. Win, win for all.
... and what hidden trail??!! Theres just trees in there man! No epic singletrail to speak of....
So let's assume you like the current status quo of the three wise monkeys. Clearly I don't think it's a good idea, but forget what I think.
Looking ahead, how do you see this panning out?
Q: Do you think it can go on like this forever (or at least as long as you, your children, your family and friends and their children don't ride any more)?
Q: If the answer above is, "No", how do you see the access situation panning out?
I recall riding some trails in Lake Parramatta more than 25 years ago. I doubt the people who put the rocks there would ever read this site. However, the first lap of anything, you'd want to be checking for silly stuff like that anyway? Sounds like kids?
The rocks are placed in sections not publicly used by walkers or even kids however I could be wrong. The area backs on to some schools.
@Rob - Mate, fair enough. No one ever thinks long term sustainability as an issue. However to get an idea of LP, it needs to be seen and ridden several times before understanding how the entire network works.
This isnt just one council's problem, it covers 3 from what we worked on the zone maps.
There is quite literally a maze of trails to choose from.
Walking trails from whom we have seen numerous walkers through who have made some holes through fences to access.
This includes the elderly, school kids, families, council regeneration workers, dogs, squirrels etc
There's rusted cars, shopping trolleys, fridges and beer kegs in the creek that havent been moved in years.
The creeks drainage system is absolutely piss poor (a fellow rider got pulled into a raging torrent that was a creek no longer than 5 mins before when heavy rain started).
We speak to rangers of specific areas all the time about these issues. They dont know who their counterparts are in different areas nor do they want to. The admin offices for the Cumberland forest responds by "No, we dont deal with these issues here".
At the end of the day after countless hours of futile attempts at lobbying and no response. What are we expected to do?
Yeah, I hear you - it's hard work trying to get these guys to sort things out.
I just think that you have a great opportunity... if you can get the various land managers organised... to do some good PR and end up with an official access policy.
Have you started by asking them if you can go in and clean out the mess you mention (the cars, trolleys, etc)?
Imagine people seeing you doing the job, or it getting in the press. MTB riders get a good image. They want to help you retain access to the area you obviously care for.
Everyone wins!
Easier said then done though, eh?
+1 to Rob's comments about doing some cleanup and making a little noise in the press about it.
It's a great way to get in the good books - give the landholders something they value for free. Then, when you want them to do something for you, they are much more inclined to help and often feel obliged to be helpful back since you've been so nice to them.
It works. The very best salespeople use it all the time - it's called the principle of reciprocity
I saw heaps of students building that huge stack of corrugated iron and junk (what ever it's supposed to be/was?) where all the tracks intersect near the south-west end of things at the creek crossing. What the hell was that thing?
Call it being a Westie now after decades in the Northern Beaches but the one thing I've noticed is perhaps the mtbers are perhaps more revered out west than in the northern burbs.
Could be just a socio economic status of West vs East vs North but if you're sporting a helmet and look like you're riding for fitness, there's a certain level of respect being shown our way out here. Thus the reason for the laxed attitude towards this topic.
Minus the eyeballing of your thousand dollar rigs, most people out here have no qualms towards mtbers and so long you dont fit the profile of a BMX bandit, they do already have good PR for mtbers around.
Is it no surprise that WSMTB get more support than those of the northern beaches?
I say this because some trail fairies (peace out to the homies who did...you know who you are) had built a wooden plank across a creek crossing. Some elderly citizens had saw us just rearranging it to make it more solid and she points out "aaahh hello deary, was it you who put this planks on these trails, you aaaare such a deeeeary. Its made it so much easier to get across noooow". Of course it was clarified it was done by other riders but this is some of the attitudes you get and this includes rangers as well who pass on the same sentiment in that "listen just dont build jumps and bike/skate parks and we're good".
On the trolleys and cars, I dont think many people are too keen to be pricked of rust cancer thus why it remains a monumental waypoint for all of rust-eternity. Basically we do what we can for our fraternity for LP and this area...
Case point on the picture above ... picturesque, yes? To the far right is a rusty old shopping trolley and out of shot are bogans sitting on the waterfall drinking beer.
I dare say, things are a bit different out here and after years of battles living in Harbord, things arent bad here out west ... minus the 500+ extra fast food outlets and no beaches!