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Bitten by a dog, Manly Dam
Today I was riding the Manly Dam Mountain bike track, when i got to the spot where you start the single track before the 19th hole, just after the fire trail an older woman and her daughter, or grand daughter something like that, started walking down the single track ahead of me. They had three dogs with them a large-ish white one, a large-ish brown one (the brown one looked alot like the link at the bottom) and a small white and brown one, none of which were on any form of leash so they were all over the place... Now I'm pretty certain that, that section of track is closed off to pedestrians. After turning the first corner of the single track i start to ride slowly past them, i passed the two other dogs but when i went to go around the brown one it came up to me and bit me on the leg (about 5cm above my ankle), I was clipped into my pedals so there wasn't that much i could do. The dog didnt bite me for very long but its bite reaches half way around my leg, and naturally i was bleeding although not by much. The women told the dog to get off my leg and so it did, as i was checking my leg i started telling her how she shouldn't be on this section of track, she denied it and walked on, she didnt seem to give a damn. I kept riding after talking to another mountain biker and when i caught up to her i went and told her she should put the dog on a leash, she dismissed the idea and so i started telling her how she shouldnt have been on the track, she shouldnt have had her dog on the track either and she should have had the dog off its leash if it was going to bite whoever came past (also there are supposed to be fox control poisons or something so having it off the leash isnt a good idea). She told me some story about her walking here for 25 years and that its shared, but then her dog came at me another two times, the first time i blocked it with my front wheel so it started trying to bite through my tires and the the second time i blocked it with my frame. she called the dog over to her and i told her to put it on a leash, she just asked me what i was still doing here if i was worried about the dog getting bitten again.
Well thats what happened, any ideas on what i should have done? or what i should do?
also what kind of stuff do you think you could contract from a dog...?
oh yeah so if you see this dog with this women, stay away from the brown one!
no apology either... >:(
this image is a random one from google the dog was abit darker than that.
[Mod. fixed image]
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It's illegal to walk a dog off lead in a public place. The fact the dog bite you is serious.
Unfortunately without firm identification and a witness there's not much you can do but I'd report it to the police and to council all the same.
Yeah true, i was thinking about that earlier. she claims she has been walking it for 25 years so theres a chance i might run into her next sunday, if i do ill get her details.
If she is there again with the dogs off leash take photos
How about this:
1. Pull out camera phone and start recording video.
2. Record shot of bite, shot of dog and woman.
3. While still recording ask woman to identify herself for any follow up (whatever that might be).
4. If woman refuses to identify herself, grab hold of dog(s) and check collar for ID and read aloud any name/phone/address printed there while recording it.
Sadly I don't think one is within their rights to demand ID, or forcible take it in this instance. I'm guessing if you tried to do this you would have been up for assault
Hope you don't have any ill effects from this bite
most of the bite is just where the teeth scrapped along my leg but there is two or three small cuts and then one puncture. the puncture started swelling up immediately. I'll bring my brothers go pro next time
that way ill capture it all in HD 
as for ID i dont think she would give it to me herself, so ill just check the dogs like you said, im only 17 so i dont think i'd get in too much trouble for it?
Interesting that you are legally obliged to provide your particulars in a minor car bingle, but apparently not when your dog takes a chunk out of someone's ankle?
give it a big blast right in the face
Not sure who you mean.......The dog or the women.
Regular dog problem people are sometimes 'known' to council officers.
You sound like a very controlled individual. If dog had've taken a bite of me or even had the audacity to have a go, it would have received a size 13 rebuttal!
Keep a thorough record. Pics of the offenders and wound, time, date, location etc.
The full moon is soon. Anything adverse should show up around then.
I understand that getting bitten by a dog is never going to be a pleasant experience. I also understand that the person was wrong to have dogs off the lead and may have been in the wrong place according to very new Dam guidelines.
But before throwing stones, or worse talking about harming animals etc I think a few things should have been considered.
When did this happen? If it was this weekend it was far too wet and you really should not of been there!
As I mentioned it was definitely wrong to have the dogs off the leash, BUT why were you trying to barge past 3 medium sized dogs and a walker on single track? I can tell you right now why you got bitten. The dog was scared of you. Gnashing of teeth is the dogs only real form of defence.
Also consider the woman’s point of view. She had been walking her dogs around the dam for longer than bikes have been hammering around it and was probably in her opinion innocently treading the same path she had been for the 19 years previous. Not really her fault that the council went all haywire last year and decided parts of the dam were no longer for everybody.
I guess what I am saying is, if you had been a bit more courteous on the trail then you may not have been bitten in the first place.
As for suggesting all the camera phone BS or grabbing a dog that has just bitten you by the collar – doesn’t that seem quite far-fetched? As for suggesting kicking a dog – that is just ridiculous and cruel.
Remember, Manly Dam is NOT a purpose built mountain bike track. Other people are going to be there. Barging past other users or suggesting any of the other behaviour on the thread would do absolutely nothing for the reputation of Mountain Bikers on the Northern Beaches.
Not in the least with the camera phone, just remember you can't record sound without permission.
As for grabbing the dog. Yeah a bit silly
As for your other arguments, they don't stand up at all. Whether the OP barged past or not the fact is a dog was off lead and out of control and bit some one. What if it had been a younger kid pedalling around with their family?
Dogs that are known to bite are regarded as dangerous and are put on strict limitations. those that are repeat offenders are put down. Having one off lead in a public place is irresponsible, stupid and illegal.
@sean: From the detail, the emotive tone, and the accusation of barging past in your post it sounds like you know the woman concerned? If so, perhaps you might like to pass her particulars onto the OP so the matter can be handed to the Council for independent resolution. If not, there are a lot of assumptions in there.
Unless the OP was actually threatening the woman, whether the dog is aggressive or simply misinterpreted the situation doesn't matter much. The result is the same: there seems to be a pattern of hurting people.
I'd respectfully suggest it is evident the owner needs to be given some more formal encouragement to manage its behaviour appropriately.
As for the rider being unwise to be riding wet Dam tracks... irrelevant issue.
As someone that walks their dog at MD I know that these are the rules
1. First dogs are not permitted on that section of track as I understand it. They are only allowed on the bushwalking tracks
http://www.warringah.nsw.gov.au/community/pets.aspx
2. Dogs must be on a leash
3. Manly Dam rangers are running a six week fox baiting program which I think has another three weeks to go and during this time no dogs are permitted at all. There are signs up at the entrances to most of the walking tracks stating this.
So going by your flow of thought, because it was wet on the weekend, the OP should not have been riding the trail (is this breaking the law?), so he somehow deserved to get bitten? Enlighten me O Holy One if I'm incorrect?
What if it was a child on a bike that tried to "barge" past the "scared" dog? As for your jibes about animal cruelty, if a dog tries to have a go at you a few times, should you stand there and take it? Obviously I am a ridiculous and cruel individual for wanting to launch a kick at a dog THAT IS TRYING TO BITE ME!
I think Dangersean is totally off on this one. I'm sick of people with their dogs off their leash. When you have little children and dogs rush up at them in parks, playground, and bush tracks uncontrolled, things escalate pretty quickly. People need to defend themselves and their children from ANIMALS. Supersonic blasters work ok.
Even a dog rushing up to you uncontrolled is regarded as a 'dog attack' for council statistics. Dogs are to be on leashes at all times unless in a marked off-dog leash area. I've found retired people to be the worst for compliance. Just just don't give a crap about rules.
signs up saying "domestic pets prohibited" yet every second dog is off a leash-people are beginning to believe that any parcel of bush or parkland is an area where dogs can be off leash!
I was riding past the dam "on the road bike" early Saturday morning, heaps of mtb riders getting ready to ride.. Even though it was plainly too wet.. I say give the dog a medal as its clearly a trail advocate...Woof!
kick the damn dog in the head a few times if it comes back at you then push the woman over . If the dog is controlled it can be off a lead , but not that dog by the sounds of it . I have owned a few dogs & none have ever bitten anyone .
Arrest them all.. One count of being a dog and one count of accessory to being a dog?
Sounds like she needs the dog for protection from all the wannabe dog kicking wet trail riding vigilantes out there
sduffy I applaud you for asking for advice but sadly I think a lot of that advice is getting lost with emotion.
What can you catch from a dog? Rabbies and probably some other nasty illnesses. I would guess that is highly unlikely but a visit to your local GP probably wouldn't go astray. Make sure you wash the wound out well.
What should you do next time?
I'll start to answer that with what you shouldn't do first.
You shouldn't ride the dam, or any single track for that matter, when it is wet. You're 17 so I am sure don't know any better and probably have no idea of the damage you do to the trail, your bike, and our image as a whole in the eyes of the public. I'm sure you're only thinking of the fun you have thrashing through the mud. Great fun, and we've all done it, but as you mature and become better informed, hopefully you'll learn to make better decisions. This has nothing to do with the dog attack and in no way justifies that action, but hopefully you'll know better for next time.
You also shouldn't ever ride past a dog, either on or off leash, on single track. It will never end well. This is compounded by the fact you have approached the dog from behind.
You should never attack the dog, it is in no way their fault, and nor should you attack the dog owner, no matter how much they are in the wrong. This will only land you in trouble. Absolutely defend your self from a dog that is being aggressive towards you and you did that the best way possible, by putting the bike between you and the dog. Tyres can be replaced
You should always let people know that you are approaching them from behind. It has always been my experience that if you do this politely with enough warning they will step out of your way. A smile and thanks never go astray. If you have to pass a dog then wait until you are on fire trail or the owner has control of the animal. Look at it from the point of view 2 ft off the ground. You are bigger than them. You are making funny noises that they probably aren't familiar with. You are approaching them from behind. You are approaching them faster than a human normally does. It's scared and does what an animal will do, fight. Not always the case but certainly not worth taking the risk. If the owner takes control of the dog then slow right down and make sure you keep talking as you go past them, the dog will recognise your voice as human and will be less threatened by you. This should be the case with any animal, including horses.
OK, so you've been bitten, what should you do? Well I too would have pulled out my phone and taken pics or video both of the dog and of the dog owner. There is absolutely no point in getting into an argument with a dog walker on trail, it will serve no point at all other than to escalate the problem. No matter how wrong they are, arguing with them won't undo the attack. Once you have taken the pic let them walk off. Then ring the park rangers, the number is on the gates at the entrance near the hydro lab and everyone that rides there should save it in their phone. Chances are you'll get an answering machine but leave a message telling them what happened, where and what direction the people are walking in. If they don't answer then I would call the local police and or the council. I suspect that they take dog attacks in public areas very seriously, particularly on a minor, and at 17 thats what you are. I would do these things because, pardon the pun, there is no point barking when you have a dog, and in this instance the rangers, cops, and local council rangers are your dog. Whilst your initial actions may unwittingly have contributed to the dog bite, there is absolutely no excuse for it and something should be done to prevent it happening again.
JFTR, that section of track has been a bike only track for at least the six years that I have been riding at the dam and I think there was a pic of a sign post somewhere on this site but I can't find it now. Haven't been there recently so not sure if there is still a sign at the start of it but there certainly has been in the past. Walkers are meant to go straight ahead where the trail has been slashed and join the grass fire break behind the houses, rejoining the shared trail down near the bridge. Just as we will always have riders that ride where they are not meant to, we will always have walkers that go where they aren't suppose to either, but arguing with them won't help.
Hope you heal soon and learn from this experience.
@ Noel, as a dad of three, I know where you are coming from. Strangely enough most dog owners will respond by saying something like oh the dog is friendly, or it won't bite. These are clearly dog owners without children. I'm not worried about what the dog will initially do, I'm more worried what my kids will do to the dog with the best of intentions, and how the dog will then respond to that. Best to just lift them up and out of the way, then ask the owner to leash them. More than one kid, stand between them and the dog and growl at it. It will see you as the pack leader and back off, OK it might help that I'm 6ft, built like a brick shit house and constantly have an angry look on my face, but that has always worked for me.
I had a large dog charge me and sink a fang into my ankle while riding up a street to access some single track. The owner watched then ran into their property while I tried to stop dog from taking another bite. The dog then followed the owner who I could see was hiding behind a fence.
Had the owner said sorry I would have been happy but due to their behaviour I rang the police. They said it's a council issue. The council were great. They called to say they visited the place and the owner denied everything but the dog matched my description so they issued a fine.
Been having dog issues on tracks around Glenbrook of late too, and I was on foot on both occasions(and it was dry). I always stop well back from the walker and their dog(s) and ask if it's okay to pass, then wait for the "it's okay" or until the owner puts the dog(s) back on the leash. This generally works, but not always as I have found out. It's never really bothered me that people walk their dogs off leash, just wish people would only do it if there dogs are well mannered.
OP. I would have reported something to Council if the dog had bitten me.
Thanks for everyones input in the matter, this whole thing wasnt really meant to be a rant at the dog owner or the dog, I just wanted to share the story and also get some advice if it were to ever happen to me again.
Now the only pet I've ever owned was a fish, so i'd say im not even the slightest bit informed on how to deal with dogs, so after reading all these comments and suggestions on how i may have contributed to the dogs need to bite me, i kind of agree, i can understand that it'd be threatened by me simply cause im on a bike and also i think it happening in a narrow area would have been a major factor. Next time i will definitely get off my bike and walk calmly. However thing that was said about me barging through, i think was false, i went to a very slow speed and in no way did i think i was seen as threatening by the dog, i slowed to very low speeds really only because I knew if i went to fast I'd excite the dogs and risk getting bitten (obviously i wasnt slow enough). Another factor could have been because i was inbetween it and its owner who was a few metres behind!
eitherway i have no experience in this but i fully see where everyone is coming from with the whole me threatening it idea.
To be honest hitting the dog at the time, never came to thought, sure it pissed me off but im not the sort of person to hit anything and it wouldnt have given me any satisfaction or bettered the situation and if in my original post it suggested that i did or was planning to, then that was probably because i was still worked up about it. Im not a violent kid and i tend to try and avoid it because i always come out beaten
haha
The bite has not cause me too much hassle and ill manage, so if you interpreted it as if half my leg was chewed off then im sorry. When i got home i quickly cleaned it with water and put betadine all over it, and it doesnt look like i have anything to worry about anymore. Its healed super quickly so it hasnt really affected me much, however i really appreciate the support, thank you. As for telling the authorities i dont really want to :/ it just doesnt seem to be that big a deal to me anymore and im kind of over it. The only worry i'd have is if like many people have said is if a younger child was to be met by this situation. Im just saying it could present a potential danger, danger as in more than just one bite on the leg.
To me being on the track while it was wet I must admit was really irresponsible and immature of myself. But i didnt know sites like these were available and i live close to the wakehurst parkway entry so i normally would ride down check if signs were up saying it was closed and if not i would ride, although, this has been my first ride in a few weeks. Yesterday there were no signs so thats why i went and did it. Maybe this website should be advertised at MTB entrances so that people are aware that they can check the status before they ride. But still i agree i should not have been on the track nether the less. And I'am sorry for that, will not happen again.
um yeah so as for the argument i had with the owner when i caught up to her, that was a useless idea and didnt get me anywhere, I didnt get any contact details off her, or take any pictures or even try to for that matter, i just talked to her. My point of doing that was primarily just to informer of what i thought she had done wrong. Mostly i wanted to express the idea that having the dog on a leash was something she should have done. I think the only thing i really did correctly was using my bike as a barrier between me and the dog
by the way there is definitely a sign if i remember correctly.
I also just wanted to add, im really new to this site, and i didnt really expect to have much input into this if any, its nice to see that the MTB community has a sight like this! I really like it, and the idea of the organised rides i think is awesome!
Yeah so thanks for all your input, really sorry for riding the dam in inappropriate conditions and I dont think im going to follow through with any action towards the dog or the owner, specifically cause I dont blame the dog at all, i think its the owners responsibility and I didnt intend to create a fuss, i got no personal vendetta against her, id just ask if she could please use the leash. The only reason why id report it to anywhere would be incase of it being a repeat offender. in that case who would i contact and how.
We don't actually have rabies in Australia. Bat lyssavirus is similar but obviously you get that from bats not dogs.
Infection and tetanus are the risks here. The dogs mouth will have bacteria in it which has the potential to get into bite wounds. A tetanus shot and a two week course of antibodies are the general prescription for a dog bite.
we should be encouraging the dog to visit other parts of the track and slow down the paving work. That might get council's attention on the "dog bites man" issue and kill two birds with one stone, so to speak....
Great reply sduffy, refreshing to see/hear a young man with such conviction! I think some NM users can take a feather out of your cap mate.
And Lach, I love you work!
Also, these animals running around in our bushland have a significant affect on fauna. The excrement creates some pretty bad issues for native animals ect. That’s another angle on the leash thing in bushland areas.
Way to retract your comments Noel