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Manly Dam... This won't be the last works!
The recent works to Manly Dam would have required a level of planning. Its got me thinking there is likely to be another 'attack' on the track in the near future.
I can't understand the council on this. They ran forums where there was overwhelming support by mountain bikers. A key theme by this group was no dumbing down of the trail.
I'm going to call council today to ask who is responsible for these planned works and request a meeting. Perhaps we also need to organize a large group of us to attend the next council meeting in protest.
End of rant...
Daniel
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That in no way whatsoever do the council take mountain bikers seriously.
And they wonder why people get frustrated and go out and build illegal trails!
If a meeting can be arranged let us know the date and time and I'll deffinatley be there. They'll probably do it midday during the week so no one can make because of work.
What concerns me is that they've shut the dam for the whole weekend, are they going to do other works now as surely just paving the current area dosen't take that long.
I wrote a nice considerate letter to council this week. I received a reply within 24 hours, and today I received a phonecall from council to discuss my letter and explain what has happened over the last week and prior.
I did not ask for permission to divulge the detail of the email or phonecall, so won't go into fine detail in public.
The generality of the call was:
There will be an update to the MTB section of council's website shortly, and I believe a note will be sent through to those on the Manly Dam ranger's email list also. This will give an update on happenings to do with the dam.
There are more areas than just the golf course single track undergoing work at the moment.
The council are considering opening the dam for this weekend. (Areas of new work or unfinished work should be treated with respect in my opinion.)
I did reiterate the general consensus of the forum members who stated 'they would be prepared to give time to maintenance and planning of maintenance'. I also mentioned the Traffic Lights on here, and mentioned the desire of many here that this would be advertised as an additional means of notifying riders, who travel from afar to ride the dam, of the conditions and status of the dam before they invest time in travel.
I think, given a little more patience and a lot less bile, that we will soon see a co-operative relationship regrow between council and the user groups. Others may disagree with my opinion.
Keep smiling and acting positively.
what he said ^
Getting angry solves nothing.
No offense slowpop but patience is what people have been over the last few years and look where it has gotten us. They stopped maintenance days in, what, 2008 (?) and then last year simply closed parts of the Dam as a knee jerk reaction without any consultation with its user groups. Parts still remain closed to one user group (bush-walkers) with the vast majority of mtb'ers stil not happy about that.
More recently Warringah Council have insisted that it is the POM that needs to be completed and agreed and then work will begin again that may involve maintenance days. The POM was supposed to be our chance to have our say so that our suggestions could be incorporated in the the future of the Dam. Now they turn around and start a whole heap of work on the track that is not in keeping with its intended use (bush-walking or mtb'ing) and without any consultation of any of its user groups.
I am all for fostering a cooperative relationship with the council and I agree that a level head is required but this certainly does not require that we sit back quietly and be taken for granted as appears to continually be the case. I hope I eat my words on this and will be happy to do so but patience is really getting us nowhere, and slowly.
There are developments in progress right now that *should* produce better outcomes going forwards. However, this round of works may well be set in stone (pardon the pun) due to contractual arrangement, although the exact situation is still a bit unclear.
I believe this instance is a result of ignorance and a lack of competitive bidding for the work from works companies with real expertise in building *mountain* bike trails, as opposed to bike paths. This is expected to change in the near future.
The closure fiasco last year has opened the eyes of WSC to the size of the user base and despite my own angry comments elsewhere on this particular issue, it appears there is a genuine desire to do the right thing and there is genuine surprise from Council that we don't like what they're doing.
Why they've not chosen to engage with us first on this occasion I can't explain, but I expect/hope this will be the last occasion on which this kind of summary action with no consultation occurs.
In the meantime, by all means continue to write to Council expressing your views, but I would repeat the calls to remain polite and informative in your complaints to Council. This is vital and helps us retain the moral high ground instead of looking like ratbags.
Councillors and staff are people too - treat them how you'd like to to be treated.
Hawkeye, sounds like you had a call too.
DaveH. Please read between the lines of what Hawkeye and I have written. Please don't eat your words, sometimes they leave a bitter aftertaste, which is one good reason to say sweet things about all you meet and deal with.
Council actually don't have to provide anything for MTB. I find the best form of persuasion is to find out what the providor wants first, then sell it to them in trade for what your heart desires.
When I'm an old wrinkly MTB'er and young'uns ride past me, I want them to thank our generation for the legacy of great trails we left them, not curse us for pissing off the people who could sate our wants, and losing it all with impatience. The Dam will be a long time gone if we can't/won't work with, and respect the land managers.
Same for NPWS...... they have to think preservation first because once a habitat is destroyed it is a ong time in regeneration.
I'm getting off my soap box now, please don't ask me back on.....
Hi guys,
First up post here but I've been lurking for a while. Having lived with the Dam over my back fence for more than 20 years and riding the trails around it for 15 years I too was pi$$ed when i first saw the photo in the other thread.
I decided to go for a run along the golf course sniggle this arvo to see just what has been done. In all honesty you can't even really tell in most places any work has been done at all. The mud pits near the bowling club carpark have been filled with gravel like they have done in the past. The sandstone pavers in the photo have been dug in and are completely buried beneath a good 3 inches of dirt and gravel. Just after this section the the work seems to be aimed at improving drainage, especially for the part where you head down the wooden boards after the bit that was paved. For now the work done doesn't seem like it will dumb down the track at all.
It certainly does not seem apparent that they will be turning the track into a paved bike path like many seem to fear. However, there are still unused pavers off to the side of the trail indicating more work is to be done so it is anyones guess what the final outcome will be.
I sent an email to the councilors and I tried not to criticize too much but rather point out the importance in the future of consultation with the primary user group (MTB'ers) for any future works.
Dan
I enjoy what you have to say! I disagree that council don't have to provide anything for mtb just as I disagree that they don't have to provide anything for surfers, soccer players, children or any other group that they are there to "serve". I live in Warringah Council and (happily) pay my rates with the understanding that I am doing so for the essential services that I am provided (waste, etc.) along with being provided facilities that the community and its visitors are calling out for.
I can't disagree with pissing people off (thus, a "level head") but I can disagree with being patient to the point of submission. I'm going to get all philosophical now but we need to remember that "governments" are there to serve the people's will not to rule over them.
Anyway, we're on the same side and aiming for he same result and if I end up eating my words its because we have the result that we are after and everything will taste good after that!
Anyone stopped to think that pavers under dirt has been done because of the damage done by riders having no problem ripping up the track in the wet? We've all probably been guilty of this but when ruts start appearing something has to be done. Since finding this sight I have a much higher respect for trails and maybe the key is to educate those people who still rush out to ride the dam in unsuitable conditions.
has seen & knows people are riding up there when it is wet too!-so they think why give a stuff & consult with this group when they do not give a stuff about these facilities we as a council provide!
Yes that is an element,but we've been in Council's ear about having realistic expectations. Because of the track's location and the huge almost tidal pent-up demand, 100% compliance with closures ain't gonna happen.
Yes ignoring closures pisses me off too,but what do you do? Shout at the tide? The trail needs to be able to handle wet weather use.
Interesting on two fronts...
First off the work has not dumbed this section down. The a line is still a decent drop and a good challenge. also the other works near Sothern Cross drive aren't too bad. This was my first ride in months after doing my back and from the info and photos on this site it did appear the track was being 'attacked' and turned into a newbie circuit no better than a walking trail. This isn't the case and I now think thecouncil are trying to get better wet weather facilities
Re riding yesterday. The track was VERY orange but was listed as Green on this site and Open in Manly Daily. I took the normal line through water rather than widen the trail in most cases. I agree with Rob in other posts re work needing to be to prevent trail widening. Sometimes I've committed to a line but when on top of it realize this is a b or c line that shouldn't be there. Blocking those all together would up the skill factor of the trail and prevent further damage.
So I'll retract half of my rant... The work council has done is good... But they should consult with riders to ensure the most needed work is done and in the right way.
I think it's a generalisation when locals around Manly regard the people who drive to the dam as coming from a long way. I've never seen stats of where they come from, but I live at Thornleigh and I'd rather drive to Ourimbah or Awaba. Why would people near me choose to ride at Manly Dam? Manly Dam is like one of those golf course trails for a golf cart (1500mm wide crushed sandstone) with a few sandstone steps thrown in, ashaplt and fire trail is used to create a loop. Locals I know might go there once every couple of years. If I lived in Western Sydney I might drive to Appin, Yellomundee or Mount Annam. If I lived in South Sydney I'd drive to Menai/Royal or something. People like to generalise that these people drive to Manly Dam from a long way away and then it's all wet so they ride it anyway. The locals are generally portrayed as some kind of angels who would not dare ride the trail when it's wet. I estimate people who park out the front of the Lab and the Primary school are more local than is perceived. Say 50% from Northern Beaches, half of that migth have heard of this site or be on the MD email list, and half again would actually care about the damage to the trail and their own bike. From seeing how peopel behave when they see a No Bikes sign in a NP I'd tak a guess that about %25 ignore it. I'd estimate that the users of this forum/site are far more compliant, aware and responsible than the average rider.
I agree Noel... Partly from personal experience.
Before stumbling across this site I hadn't really considered the impact of riding in the wet; either on the track or on my bike. I'm sure I rode Manly Dam at times when it was red... But it was simple ignorance of the issues.
Purly subjective but I tend to think that someone has driven 30 minutes or more to the dam would just drive another 10 to another trail; cascades, Terry hills etc... Whereas a 'local' who has to ride 30-40 minutes on the Road may still ride.
I guess without any real data it's hard to say if it's locals or not...
There is some truth to the generalisation, Noel. But it's usually newby riders who are just getting into the scene and don't have the contact networks and don't know about the other less famous options yet. I'm guessing on numbers but I'd estimate a majority of those I;ve stopped and quizzed have come from outside the area, eg eastern suburbs, inner west, Epping, Ryde etc.
There is still a significant minority of locals though who aren't on the mailing list or who think that just one bike ridden by little ole them won;t make an impact.
Let's face it. Unless you visit here or are on the incredibly reliable mail list how are you to know the track is closed?
We are expecting to get some facilities at Hornsby, and I hope we can combat these challenges. I'm not confident, and if it's not done right, it stifles future initiatives.
So some good signage would include things like:
-If it's Open or Closed (padlock flip chart thing)
-Website link to help people get connected with the local off-road cycling community
-Not to ride in the wet (damages trail)
-Nearest wet weather friendly trails