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Terrey Hills gun club
Whilst riding the Mona Vale Road sniggle on the weekend I come across a sign on the side of the track highlighting the proposed addition of a rifle range to the existing gun club on Mona Vale Road, Terrey Hills.
It was also featured in the Manly Daily today.
Go to the Warringah Council website for further details of this proposal: http://www.warringah.nsw.gov.au/ePlanning/Pages/...
or search for DA2011/0305
Do you want to be riding in front of, beside or behind a rifle range?
What will the noise do to the native wildlife in the area?
Should there be further development of this bushland?
It looks like submissions on this development are officially closed however I have just posted a comment using the general comments link and hopefully it will be registered to this DA.
There are already three gun ranges on the northern beaches - why is a fourth required?
Why does it have to be in the bushland that everyone is trying so hard to protect and preserve?
I won't feel comfortable walking or riding the tracks surrounding this rifle range.
Register your thoughts on this matter with the council and get it the public attention it deserves. It seems to have "snuck under the radar" so far with very few objections and what appears to be a majority support from what I guess is the gun club members. Lets see if we can get the full and proper local public's input on this one.
Cheers
Jon
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Top post Jon, and I agree - as will most people that ride with or without their kids on those tracks. I am keen to know the easiest way for us to take collaborative action. Happy to help where appropriate but have very little experience dealing with council DAs.
Cheers K
As usual, the press says nothing about these kinds of things until it's too late to act.
Unfortunately, with the submission period being closed, your letters cannot formally be considered by the planning officer who is responsible for reporting and making a recommendation to Councillors. It would be a breach of process that would not look good if an adverse decision were to be challenged in the Land and Environment Court.
However, you can still write directly to Councillors. I suggest you do so. Matters to raise would be:
* impact of the noise on wildlife,
* adverse impact of the noise on nearby residents' peaceful enjoyment of their lot,
* risk of environmental contamination on the land - you may wish to cite the old shooting range on the Dept of Sport and Rec land at Narrabeen that is fenced off with barbed wire due to soil contamination,
* impact of the noise on the safety of nearby horse riders using approved trails (that is, the MV Rd sniggle) through startling their mounts
* risk of injury to horse riders, off-road bicyclists, and residents from ricocheting projectiles
Things like potential impact on the value of surrounding properties is not a relevant matter, so I wouldn't other raising that.
Hope this helps.
It seems that most of your arguments are also ones we complain about when used against us by the “greenies” who hate MTB.
I’m pretty sure safety will be paramount in their considerations and if that's taken care of then I can’t see how it impacts our sport?
Besides guns are useful, as without them we wouldn’t be able to fight the war on terror and have awesome movies such as saving private Ryan, lock stock and two smoking barrels and actors such as Clint Eastwood would be looking for a whole new catch phrase..
I don't think the danger side of it is an issue. A properly run rifle range should pose no danger to anyone on it or around it.
I don't own a gun but have fired plenty and it poses little risk. Even have sat under the targets when belt fed machine guns are being fired (fun
) and it poses no risk.
And yes I ride MTB's too.
We've got a great relationship with the gun club up here and have utilised their facilities as an event center for several State and National DH races and even held a Oceania champs there.
I agree with Obmal that all lot of this seems to be a similar uninformed scare mongering we get so fed up with when the old fuddy duddy walker association use it against us.
For Obmal's comments!
I haven't read it as yet (to busy boxing my sold bike up) but I'll stay out of this one as I would support a rifle club. I wouldn't support it if they were ripping out heaps of native bushland to do it though.
Edit: there actually was a story in the daily a while a ago for this as well.
http://manly-daily.whereilive.com.au/news/story/...
... although I will confess to a vague gut-level discomfort with anything that promotes the use of fire arms in the community.
I just advised some things to do if the original poster wanted to be more effective. I won't be writing anything to Councillors myself as I don't feel that strongly about it. As for hypocrite, yep I am sure am: human nature, although not proud of it.
Would it be wrong to use these same arguments do you think against motorcross bikes being allowed in national parks? (I reckon they'd ricochet a lot further if they hit a tree.
)
As for the matters I mentioned, if the gun club is able to properly address them then approval will probably be given and I wouldn't have too much of an issue with that. If not, then it seems to me appropriate for the application to be refused.
John. Glad to see you clarified some of your points.
I wonder how many of the above have actually used or been to a rifle range.
Ricochets.....hardly an issue. The round will have lost so much energy after it hits the range butt that it is totally harmless. I remember once standing at the butts of a Minimi shoot. The guy next to me felt something bounce off him. It was a ricochet off the target frame above. The most harm was done when he went to pick the round (more like twisted jacket of the round) up and burnt his finger LOL. Although he did think he was bulletproof after that
Have shot pistols, rifles, machine guns, rockets, grenades, HE etc. All very safe if done properly.
This is a well run and heavily regulated club. This thread in places reads just as badly as the ill informed and prejudiced reporting that constantly follows us as we constructively try to engage with all stakeholders to increase our access to land.
As for the comments that there are too many other clubs already, there are many different disciplines in shooting requiring different resources - a pistol range has vastly different needs to a rifle range or clay pigeon range. This is akin to saying lets close all single track, dirt jumps, downhill and XC to replace it all with fire trail, after all there is far too much land given over to MTB access already....
All in all this application should pose no issues to us, the biggest issue being noise. As it is located well away from dwellings on the edge of the NP this minimises the impact to local residents.
I have fired plenty of rifles on ranges and I think for what it is worth as long as it is done safely it can be very enjoyable and safe sport. I am not overly concerned all in all really.
But then i could ride P-LT with my HK MSG90 on my back... and feel nice and safe...
Just kidding...
The HK P30 is just fine...
; )
I agree that a properly run rifle range would not be a problem. I expect that the proposed development will have to pass through all of the same hoops as an mtb trail, as well as specific safety standards.
If riders react in an irrational fashion then we dont look any different to those who object to building trails. As stakeholders we are entitled to scrutinise the application, make comments, and if necessary raise objections.
Hunters on the other hand - that is scary and I would rather not ride in any area open to hunters.
Does anyone know what sort of footprint a rifle range requires vs the current pistol range? I'd assume it requires more distance, and wonder if this will have any impact on the lower track behind the current pistol club. I think it unlikely they would move anything closer to MV Rd?
I agree with supporting the shared land use approach, though I confess to feeling vaguely uneasy riding past when guns are a'firing. However, with the rifle range at Terry Hills and the pistol range where it is, you can hear gunfire from just about all the trails in the St Ives / Terry Hills area on some weekends.
No-one has shot this particular JR
Well, not yet.
Still alive and kicking for the time being.
Is this development going to block the track which leads to St Ives S.G. from Terrey Hills? It looks like it will be right next door to that lone house on Mona Vale Rd near St Ives SG.
I rode the trail only recently and the gun club is a fair way from the single track.