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Wallaroo NP Advocacy Thread
Don't know how many people here ride the Wallaroo NP north of raymond terrace, those from Raymond Terrace and Medowie probably do.
Anyway, NPWS are interested in discussing the potential for the park as a mtb destination. The park has 2500Ha on offer and currently has an extensive network of management, 4wd and moto trails.
I've had preliminary contact with NPWS and we are meeting tomorrow to talk further about it. A group of riders from Medowie and Raymond Terrace has also been kept in the loop so far with a view to forming a group similar to the GTA, for the Wallaroo NP.
As with the Jesmond thread, I will keep this thread up to date with recent discussions to get people involved, but the intent is to get the ball rolling and had the process over to the local riders to take carriage of.
Some interesting concepts have been discussed by the NPWS, which for now I won't discuss here, but if you want to be involved or have any comments, post away.
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This may come in handy with all the trail work you are generating up there
http://www.rotorburn.com/forums/showthread.php?2...
D
Just had a look on the map, that's a great location for a mtb park. I have a mate with a property near there, plenty of terrain and diversity.
Location close to the freeway is also good for getting to and from. this may be Awaba No. 2
Only question is resources are spread pretty thin - is there enough demand for an additional park to maintain, when resources are focused on Awaba / Glenrock / Jesmond.
If only we had this problem in Sydney I.e more locations then resources for MTB'g
What makes you say there would be a problem with resources?
There are local riders willing to volunteer everywhere.
What if you said there where more locations then resources for walking trails?
I think,we have to change our thinking a bit, NP's spend a good portion of 70mill each year maintaining walking trails and MTBrs are one of the largest NP usergroups and going to grow every year.
So we will not be left in the dark when it comes financial resources if need be and volunteers are always available to keep costs to a minimum.
Wow, a NP MTB park as a destination , thats sounds promising!
To be a destination it would have to be "complete" and have purpose built trails for all diciplines.
Your comment on "interesting concepts discussed by NP sounds exciting".
im hoping they want a full network DH AM DJ Skills.....aim high
Great work mate,keep us posted
I agree with new riding areas we have to be careful not to spread things too thin, that's why we are looking at areas where there is a rider population to support the process. Wallaroo ticks those boxes.
The Raymond Terrace/medowie areas have a large riding population, add the RAAF base in and there is a demand for it.
I'm already talking to a core group who ride there a lot and they will hopefully be the ones guiding what happens on the ground.
at least 2 blokes who live up around there who ride-they even make the trip down to G'Rock when possible-they will be stoked to hear of this!
I live in medowie and i would be happy to get involved with this
For me (Mayfield) it would be about the same time to get there as Awaba but a much easier trip.
From my post the other day you will have seen the kind of riding I'm searching for so if there's a good fire trail network then I'm keen to have a look.
I think if it was possible to put together a 50km+ loop of mixed trails then that would complement the other places really nicely.
We've got 12k's of club track at Awaba (which I am really enjoying at the moment btw) good for busting out a couple of hard laps but there is a limit to how many times I can handle repeating the same loop in one session. Glenrock is good fun but lacks a little of the continuity that I like about Awaba and because it's quite small, any longer than an hour and you are riding the same trails over again.
Mogo and Wingello are two examples of the type of places I'm pretty keen on at this point in time. Both primarily networks made up of forest roads/fire trail but it's possible to put together a 50km 2-3hr ride with 20-30% single track, some good hills and some fast bits to let you stretch out. A good mix I reckon.
The most lost I have ever been was in Mogo earlier this year. Awesome trails though.
What you are describing though is sounding a lot like Wallaroo. I've lined up a meeting for some of the locals with NPWS later this week, so th wheels are turning.
out between Cessnock,Pokolbin & Kurri Kurri/Abermain/Weston-it is a huge mish mash of firetrails & a few singles thrown in too!
Hi all,
I'm one of the Port Stephens 'locals' who rides Wallaroo pretty regularly and sammydog helped coordinate a meeting with myself, another local and the gents at NPWS.
We had the meeting this morning and I'd say it was positive. It's early days, but there is a definite willingness to get some content in the Wallaroo Draft Plan Of Management about mountain biking in the Park.
I'm flat out at work today, but will hopefully get a better summary of what's happening in the near future.
In the meantime keep posting here with comments, input and questions. It is great to read about what people are looking for in another destination that would complement the current selection. From what I've read so far, Wallaroo is a good candidate for those requirements.
I got the impression the meeting went well from the summary I got.
Looks like getting State Forests onboard is pretty important as well. Would be awesome to get some cross tenure trails happening.
Keep us posted though on how it all progresses. I'll sit back and watch now unless you need a hand with anything.
With the demise of Bottlebutt I'm planning a trip to Wallaroo tomorrow to check the place out.
Ok, so yesterday was very wet but I didn't let that deter me.
I mostly stuck to the fire trails - worked my way around a loop (of sorts) starting at the rest stop, up to the Karuah turnoff and then back. Ran out of time so I didn't get into the N and W bits.
There are plenty of fire trails, generally in great condition.
There are however quite a few that run through low areas and were full of standing water. Even considering the rain I suspect a lot of these never dry out and the motos/4x4s have done a pretty good job of carving them up.
It looks like a great spot for smashing out some fire trail k's once you learn where to avoid (I am not so keen on the get off and hike through a foot of water deal). With the addition of some single track it has the potential to be fantastic I reckon.
As I was going around I couldn't stop thinking "you could hold a 50/100km race in here".
Only concern if mtb trails were to be built is how to deal with the motos as there seems to be no control over vehicle access. Looks like the 4x4/moto crew have a field day.
Interested in riding Wallaroo?
Sign-up for the social group ride this Sunday
http://glenrocktrailalliance.com/node/31129
As you have read here, we have started discussions with NSW National Parks and Wildlife Service about mountain biking in Wallaroo National Park.
In the next few months NPWS will be publishing a Draft Plan of Management for Wallaroo National Park which sets out how they are going to look after the Park for at least the next ten years. From the meeting we had with NPWS I got the impression that they see some benefits to encouraging low impact users, such as mountain bikers, to use the Park as it may discourage high impact users such as motorbikes and 4WDs and other undesirable behaviour such as rubbish dumping. This will hopefully reduce their costs of managing Wallaroo.
The NPWS have asked us to:
To try and gather this sort of information we've made up a quick online survey. If you have ridden in Wallaroo, would like to ride there or are interested in contributing thoughts to this opportunity we'd really like you to complete the survey.
The survey is at https://docs.google.com/a/depictd.com/spreadshee...
Cheers,
Nifty
So I thought I was the only person riding wallaroo , been riding there for 5 years on a regular basis and never seen another rider - only twice seen tracks. But I do ride there exclusively there mid-week to avoid the motos. Ive ridden the west side of the highway to all corners and now know what tracks get and stay wet. Im sorry I missed the social ride and will watch for further news . Motos use this area A LOT . Skulls and light soil may make the west side of high way a challenging location for track making but to have a MTB park 4Km from my house , well , I want to get involved. No longer will I think of this as my private area - I hope to see more bikes out there in the future.
I've been in for a couple of rides since my first go - have seen the odd mtb tyre track so figured there must be others out there.....
Still learning how to avoid all the boggy bits. Even many of the forest roads aren't immune. Saw the corner of an old bed frame poking out of one 'puddle' the other day so god knows how deep it was.
I've been concentrating mostly on the section from the rest stop up to Karuah - once I've put together a decent out and back loop (getting close) then I'll start trying to pick through all the trail in Wallaroo NP itself.
In talking with National Parks, we have sketched out some of the trails in Wallaroo.
We hope this partial trail map of Wallaroo will benefit those that have not ridden there. It is not a complete trail map. There will be the odd missing trail in what we have done so far and we are yet to draw in the trails near Bucketts Way. We'll keep adding to it, but hope it is useful even at this stage.
http://mtb.depictd.com/trails/wallaroo
Updated. Red=moto, Blue=4x4, Yellow=Roads.
Trails in grey I haven't explored yet but look like they are there on Google Earth/Nearmap.
Well it was a great session - thanks once again Nifty for your trail master skills!
We had Nifty, myself and 10 other riders along for the ride - many of which were new faces. I was certainly impressed with the keeness of the crew and how they threw themselves at the unfamiliar trails - some more literally than others! Yes there were a couple of 'offs' and a few slaps from overgrown shrubs but that is a given at Wallaroo due to the raw state of the trails.
Nifty had linked together a 30km loop
http://www.everytrail.com/view_trip.php?trip_id=......
that mainly kept us on a single/moto track and used the 12 Mile Creek Rest Area as the trail head. This worked very well as there was ample parking in the truck/trailer area of the rest area for us to congragate together and was also next to the toilets so some could have one last nervous pee.
We went through a couple of lower sections that were a little muddy at the bottom and we also had to walk across a couple of creeks but all in all the group kept rolling together remarkeably well for it's large size. We successfully implemented the 'corner-man' technique where riders at the front of the pack would take it in turns to stop at the fork in the trail to direct and keep the others moving and Phil and I took it in turns to be 'sweeper' - which meant I got to witness a couple of Mick's stacks and Stacy's squeels as they re-aquainted themselves with Wallaroo's charming ruts.
The steep and rocky climb up 'Duggans Trail' was a great challenge and we stopped at the top to take in a short bush walk to a look out and stop for a snack. Then the long gradual run back down 'Duggans Run' was awesome as always. The gradient is perfect to let go of the brakes and there is a great variety of surfaces and conditions to keep you on your toes.
Another higlight for me was riding singletrack through a recently burnt back area - well actually there was still a bit of fire and smoke about. It was quite surreal and would of made for fantastic photo's.
We all had a blast and agreed that by just doing the following we'd increase Wallaroo's useability to MTBers:
* Put out some markers to mark loop(s) linking together the existing trails
* Trim back some foliage that overhangs some areas of the trails
* Do some minor work to improve drainage in the lower areas
Later phases of trail works could introduce purpose built MTB singletrack that could link together existing trails and avoid current water traps, however we are getting ahead of ourselves and nothing has been approved yet! Nifty and I are still in the very early stages of discussions with NP&WS about trail development and we will keep you updated.
If you came on the ride please share your thoughts and also a reminder to complete the 'Wallaroo Riders Survey' at http://mtb.depictd.com/content/wallaroo-riders-s...
Hi all,
Thought I'd give a quick status update as we have not posted any news for a while.
The school holidays made it difficult to find a time where we could meet again with NPWS. We are hoping to have a meeting at the end of this week or soon after.
They have met with State Forests and the RTA. They have given us the contact details of the person in State Forests we will need to speak about trails in their parts of Wallaroo.
So far we have had approximately 60 people complete the survey which is a huge help to us, so thanks to all for the input. We plan to publish a summary of the results (no submitters details will be revealed) as well as providing the summary to NPWS. In general I would say people are keen to see an area with a much longer continuous loop, and there have been numerous requests for more technical features/riding.
I hope to give another update after the next meeting with NPWS.
Keep up the good work!
For those who want more technical riding just send them up Duggans then down 'Duggans shortcut'.
Once they have cleared that without putting a foot down they can take on the outer moto trail here http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=-32.6192&lon=1... (as opposed to the ridge trail).
I reckon there are already some really interesting bits of trail in there for those who are willing to explore.
Hey - perhaps these places deserve their own trails DB page? Anyone can add/update now it's like a wiki so don't be shy
the only problem in medowie is that ever think is clay base
great l by one thin you may have forgeten is the bomming range all RAAF airiu
I am going to have a crack at deciphering what you wrote, but in English.
the only problem in medowie is that ever think is clay base
The only problem with Medowie, is that every thing is clay based. <- Is that correct?
great l by one thin you may have forgeten is the bomming range all RAAF airiu
Great, but one thing you may have forgotten, is that the bombing range is RAAF restricted area. <- Is that kind of correct?
I was talking to State Forests today at Awaba. I raised Wallaroo SF and they indicated that the discussion with NPWS had taken place and were pretty positive about cross tenure trails.
Looks like it's all shaping up nicely for Wallaroo.
The bombing range is on the other side of the Pacific Highway to the National Park/State Forest being discussed, so other than noise there is no issue.
Have the discussions with NPWS included their area up at Karuah as well?
The only way I have been able to link together a loop up to Karuah is to cross over the Scotts Rd(?) bridge then ride through Karuah Nature Reserve (?) then come back over the Mines Trail bridge. Then back to the state forest via some more roads through what I believe is NPWS area. I'm not 100% on the correct names of all this but sure I've seen NPWS logos on the signs.
Hi all,
Yesterday morning I had the second meeting with NPWS with regard to Wallaroo.
It was an informal meeting with both parties essentially updating each other on progress.
The main news is that first step in the process is about to be met - namely the inclusion of mountain biking as a recognised activity in Wallaroo in its Draft Plan Of Management (POM). This is significant because the Draft Plan of Management will be published for public comment and if mountain biking was not mentioned in the Draft POM then future efforts to get it in the finalised POM would have been more difficult.
I was able to present the (de-identified) survey results which NPWS were very appreciative of. The results are available at http://mtb.depictd.com/content/wallaroo-riders-s...
They re-iterated that although there was survey feedback requesting more gravity style riding options in Wallaroo (DH, dual slalom, 4X, skills park) these will not be catered for in the National Park sector as they are not consistent with the NPWS Sustainable Mountain Biking Strategy. They have suggested it would be more appropriate pursuing these options in the adjacent State Forest parts of Wallaroo. They do see the development of a long distance loop in Wallaroo as consistent with the strategy.
I spoke of my telephone discussion with a person at State Forests. She was very helpful and gave me an introduction to the current State Forests position/process. Here is where I see significant barriers to progress for cross-tenure trails. If you ride on non-public roads in State Forests (which in Wallaroo SF means the existing moto tracks) then you are breaking the law (Forestry Act) unless you have a permit. To get a permit a group must be responsible for the trail maintenance, have insurance and purchase either a Special Purpose Permit (typically for use with a single event) or an Occupation Permit. The latter would be most appropriate for recreational use of Wallaroo SF but comes in at $1100 per annum. Sammydog tells me the insurance would not be too difficult if our 'group' worked with HMBA/IMBA, but coming up with $1100 per year for recreational use is pretty tough. Nothing is yet resolved on the State Forests front, this is just the default position they have to take with such activities within the confines of the Act. I'm open to suggestions on ways forward. Obviously these barriers would hamper efforts for things such as dual slalom, 4X, skills park in the State Forest sector of Wallaroo.
NPWS plan to be in touch with me again in the next couple of weeks. I believe they said the Draft POM will be out before the end of the year.
Despite the potential set back with State Forests, I'd say things are progressing well and probably faster than we could have anticipated. I think the working relationship and mutual trust that the GTA people have built with NPWS and the outcome at Glenrock are a huge help so thanks again GTA.
Cheers,
Nifty
P.S. @browny - I'm afraid I forgot to ask about the Karuah NP plans. Will do so in near future. NPWS like your mapping work!
Hi all,
So after a few delays, the draft plan of management has been published by NPWS. A PDF version can be downloaded from the page:
http://www.environment.nsw.gov.au/parkmanagement...
The main discussion on mountain biking in Wallaroo National Park starts at the bottom of page 12 and continues into page 13.
I'd encourage all interested parties to have a read and submit comments at the web page using the submission form. If you want to see authorised mountain biking trails in Wallaroo then I would imagine you would be endorsing the NPWS's plans for sustainable mountain biking in the Park.
Cheers,
Nifty
Everytime I go there I find more secret single trail, totally hooked. I don't see that there is much need for any trail works.
Track marking would help people that have fear of getting lost issues and tie up loops for first time riders. Other than that leave it alone I reckon there is loads of stuff in there to ride and lots of it is technical -downs and ups.
I'm all for a management plan but it would be sad to see more Mac-track drive through MTB in there.
The thing I love about Wallaroo/Karuah is that the tracks are un-manicured unshaped and awesome, you ride them as you find them, be sad to lose that.
and that is what I enjoy about the place too. As bad as it sounds (and definitely not sustainable, nor aesthetic) I quite enjoy the eroded, rocky nature of a lot of the trails. For those that aren't familiar, the best comparison I can offer is that there is quite a lot that is similar to Shit Happens before it was reworked.
The problem I have with it though is that there are some nice fun trails then you come around a corner and and all of a sudden it degenerates into a big muddy bog hole, a dam sized puddle or the motos have cut a slot car rut into the track. So one or two localised bad spots can really spoil something that's otherwise quite fun.
What I would like to see them start with is a general tidy up of these sections that choke things up - simple things like establishing some basic drainage, maybe some small re-routes and trim back the vegetation (constantly being slapped in the face grows old pretty quick).
Maybe some purpose built single track if mtb gets a bit more established but I have real concerns over how the motos would be managed.
The POM is pretty vague at the moment though and after catching up with the NPWS ranger at Clean Up Australia Day it seems that they are only just starting to get some ideas about what the possibilities could be. So I think we'll just have to wait and see what happens.
One other thing I like, which seems quite relevant to recent discussions, is that I have absolutely no hesitation using it as a venue for riding in the wet. Possibly people might get upset with that, but compared with the motos and 4x4s, the impact of MTB is SFA.
Just found this thread, any update?
Moving to Medowie at the start of next year by the looks of things...so I am keen for any update also.
Might also have to get a guided tour of the Medowie loop from a local, or I could try and figure out how to upload the loop segment to my Garmin.
Moving to Medowie at the start of next year by the looks of things...so I am keen for any update also.
Might also have to get a guided tour of the Medowie loop from a local, or I could try and figure out how to upload the loop segment to my Garmin.
My last contact was showing World Trail around. Their report came out early last year (I never saw it) and I believe it was tabled for discussion midway through the year.
My personal opinion is that there is miles of potential but to do it justice would require a lot of investment from NPWS. Like 6-7 figures of investment to get a drawcard trail and some infrastructure in there to attract people. It would also need some cooperation from State Forests (at the moment they aren't supportive) because I don't think the National Park area itself is quite big enough.
Until then it will remain as a bunch of rough and raw Moto/4x4 trails that's probably not going to interest a lot of people but can be great fun if you're looking for something different.
I've had other priorities take over my life for the last 18 months which means I've totally lost contact with the mtb scene so for all I know it might now be a vastly different situation. Your best bet would be to try and track down Nev to see what transpired.