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Isn't it odd how we all value used bikes..... Discussion topic
Based on nothing more than observation over the last few years I always seem to find it odd that some categories of bikes seem to naturally demand disproportionate prices compared to others.
Cast an eye over the classifieds here and in other areas of selling and you will see the same trend.
Downhill bikes, although generally the same value new tend to depreciate like lead balloons. A fair way up the ladder comes dual suspension trail and all mountain machines. Topped by road bikes that tend to lose the least amount of value over a similar period of time.
Given the argument that road bikes are naturally subjected to a vastly less abusive environment than you can still justify some of the prices.
(Although the price of a new roadie is an argument for another day)
When it comes to dual suspension bikes however..... Downhill bikes do take larger hits and more abusive riding. But really, they are built like tanks compared to your average 5" travel bike do vastly less kilometers and have a higher spec of equipment. Just have a look at the array of adjustments built into a good downhill bike.
So why is it these guys who sling large amounts of money on these bikes when new get a pitence for them used.
After looking at a few used trail bikes lately I was dismayed to see some guys asking over 50% value of new on a bike a few years old. Of which the owner considered the definition of maintenance was turning on a garden hose and replacing bald tyres.
Comparatively a downhill bike would struggle to fetch barely 20% residual.
It just confounds me sometimes. Just seeing if anyone else every got dismayed by it.
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I found exactly the same thing when looking for my new bike a bit over a year ago. People were just asking way too much for their 2nd hand bikes. I ended up getting my Roscoe with better specs new for less than people were asking 2nd hand.
I would only buy new now, except for a wet weather clunker maybe.
I read somewhere that a group of people in a study were given a random object worth $5 and asked to sell it to others and buy another. The average asking price was $7 and they would only pay $3 for a replacement - gives you an idea of how we value our own things and de-value other peoples things.
Its called endowment and it has been scientifically described as you say. The rule is no one will ever value an item above what the owner of that item can and will. I love buying second hand...look for a bike with lots of upgrades, seldom used and well maintained and save a small fortune.
I'd suggest it also has to do with the size of the secondhand buyer's market.
More expensive bikes tend to take the biggest hit as a percentage of original purchase price too.
This is an interesting thread. I am always interested in peoples perception of price for 2nd hand bikes.
I have a lot of bikes for sale (fairly regularly) and people are forever asking why I dont ask more for them, or...how I can sell them so quickly.
I have a strong sense that people have a threshold for 2nd hand stuff. In my experience, its around the 3.5k mark. No matter how good it is, once it gets to 4k, its a bugger to move. Make it 3.5k, and they buy.
What really fascinates me is how the original owner tries to 'limit losses' on a sale, as if riding it and owning it are 'worth' any money. If you own something that you intend to sell, then essentially you are paying a rental fee which manifests itself as the depreciation.
I am in an interesting position this year, as my race bike (S-Works Epic 29er) is going to be a pain to shift I think, as I will need to ask more than 3.5k for it. Probably more like 5k. I am sure it will take longer.
In other news (shameless plug) watch out for Jennys Trek Madone roadie for sale soon. 2011 top end frame and full Ultegra, with DuraAce wheels. Price? You guessed it......
I bought my 18 month old Anthem X Ltd (rrp $8,500) for $1,400.
It's been used & abused, as I expected it to be. But fundamentally, nothing is wrong with it. I expected to fork out up to $2K total to replace & service a few things... So far I have lots of change.
This is a great example of an expensive bike taking a huge hit. Love it!
You cant put a price on the fun i get from riding my bike
Ive struggled to get rid of old/2nd hand bikes.
I just try to give them away to a good home instead of throwing them out the tip.
One frame I ended up giving to an eastern states person on condition he paid the postage.
Now fully restored and used daily, its on its 3rd life.
I buy most parts 2nd hand except for the chain, derailers ect.
But I agree, people expect too much for 2nd hand bikes to start off with.
I guess its given them a lot of fun and the price of memories are added to the price.
I've always felt there are definite price points for both new and 2nd hand bikes. Selling low spec mtb on ebay I have been embarrassed by what people will pay, over 50% of the new price for bikes which have been trashed - mind you this is around the $300 mark. Maybe $3.5K is another price point, and probably the most people with pay for a second hand bike.
The problem with 2nd hand is that although 50% of the new price might be a good deal, usually its 50% of the rep. If you time your purchase right it usually means that you are paying about 25% less than the rrp (for example at the moment for a 2011 bike), so this makes the 2nd hand price is about 75% of the new price.
The issue second hand sellers have at the moment and as someone who is looking to enter the entry level carbon hardtail space for the first time, is that they are asking 3,500 or 3,000 for a second hand carbon and while the bike may have been 5K+ when purchased 6mths ago, as a new buyer you need to weigh this up against a new entry level carbon bike like the Giant XTC or entry level carbon Scott, both of which have been given excellent reviews and retail for around 3K. You also get a warranty and can haggle on free 6mths service and additional items. I have been watching ebay for a while and not much is moving in the 3k+ space, especially anything with the words 26inch/carbon/3k+ in it.
Here's my theory for DH bikes. A lot of young blokes who decide they want to get into MTB grab new DH bikes because they are the sexiest and seem like the "best" bikes to the untrained eye because they have all the fruit. Most of those guys go for a couple of rides and realise you need balls, fitness and commitment, none of which they have, so they sell. The rest of them realise they should have got an XC/trail bike and sell their DH for one of them. That means a strong supply of secondhand DH bikes that drives prices down.
I think you have already hit the nail on the head. A DH bike can and will be used aggressively. It will take hits, be smashed into dirt and rocks. Just because the owner gleefully tells the buyer it has been fully maintained and "hardly used", who would believe that? Any bike used aggressively, that was likely to have taken serious hits, will be viewed by the prospective buyer as a purchase worthy of a higher discount - all other things being equal. I put it down to the same notion where you may want to buy an old Starion or Cordia, but you just know that someone in the past has really spanked that vehicle within an inch of its life - with the lower used price as a result.
There's a fool for asking and fool for paying.
In saying that, what does it matter what someone asks? If its too much, move on and look for something else. Alternatively, send them a message and offer an amount that you are prepared to pay. If they refuse, they lose a sale and the hunt continues.
What I get the shits with, is seeing people post in other peoples for sale threads telling them they are asking too much. As said, don't like the price... Move on!
If you feel you have to say something, send them a private message, instead of posting in thier thread. For instance, the seller might not know that a brand new item can be bought cheaper, so a polite private message saying so is a good way to be notified of this, if one feels the need to protect society from being ripped off if they dont do their research. But doing it publicly in the thread is pretty off.
There's some irony in this perception too.
As mentioned, a dh bike can live a hard life. However, it's designed for such riding and any other bike can be offered for sale and be just as rooted, not necessarily through heavy duty riding, rather through neglect, riding in inclement conditions and a lack of maintenance.
Comparatively, a road bike will get far more exercise than any mtb. Especially a commuter. Yet its resale value and its ability to hold onto that value is good. I figure its because there's always someone out there in the world that requires a roady, be it for exercise, to commute or to get on the bandwagon...
As for mtb's there are many factors that drive down the resale value. The number one reason is marketplace. That is, target audience.The simple truth is that the secondhand mtb market is small. Very small. Tiny. And even tinier for dh/freeride type. And I live in Sydney and write this from a Sydney perspective. Imagine living in a smaller city or a town...
The road and commute market and the low cost/entry level market is far bigger.
Please folks don't be offended and don't suggest that I'm wrong about this.
I see many forum threads about the LBS that fails to stock a certain high end item and if it does it's too costly. Also, the staff seem to be unknowledgeable about certain awesome latest things. And this drives buyers online. I don't wish to wade into this debate here but I will say this; the most frequent customer in a city or urban bike shop will buy a bike at approx $500. The next largest group is $500 to $1000 and of those a quarter will be capable of any off road use. The next group is sub performance road, alloy frames at about $1500 or so.The there's road from $2K to $3K...
The point of this is that despite all you happy folk attending races/events, riding with mates and being immersed in mtb culture and generally seeing lots and lots of smiling faces, the mtb market is tiny. Making it tough to sell a used bike.
Compounding that, in recent years, all bikes have become cheaper.
The rise in the value of the dollar since 2008/9, and the fact that many major brands have changed distributor, which in some cases has cut out the middle man, has brought down the rrp of new bikes. Also, the growth in popularity of general cycling also helps. Mass production equals low prices and the high sales of the aforementioned entry level bikes will cause dearer product to lessen in price also.
When your bike model is superseded or even deleted, that will devalue it too, no matter how pristine it is.
I've learnt to be patient when selling a second hand bike of mine. I don't expect a quick sale. The right buyer may not be looking for a bike just when its advertised. Starting with a high price and waiting for offers is a common tactic yet not always good as prospective buyers may not make an offer and will simply move on. I decide on a price and stick to it.
Very common bikes will flood the market and receive lower prices. A high end rare second hand opportunity should fetch good money.
Ultimately, used mtb's are a buyers market...