Take it easy on the roads - a rant

"Sorry Mate I Didn't See You", a refrain most motorcyclists are all to familiar with and i've also heared it on the bicycle when I was bowled over many years ago. I've seen this kind of stupidity from most kinds of drivers and they either have their heads up their arse or most likely they don't give a shit about anybody else especially if the cyclist is "in their way". I've made the odd missjudgement occasionally but some of these people have no problem risking other peoples lives . Maybe a little patience from all concerned and more of a police prescence on the road rather than more speed cameras might send some of these idiots a message that maybe they won't get away with it. My 2C worth .

I am going to get flamed for this i know but its the reason bikes dont belong on Sydney roads, at least main roads anyway.

If you are going to ride on narrow, one lane roads (i am assuming this based on your descrition) below the speed limit and hold up traffic this is what is going to happen, people will become frustrated and make silly decisions. Rightly or wrongly people dont want to wait for a cyclists. If i as a motorist can be booked for going too slowly, pretty sure the fine is obstructing traffic or something to that effect, then i see no reason why a cyclist should not be booked for the same thing. The road rules apply to cyclists as well. Now i am not stupid enough to think for one second that your legs will push you up a decent incline at 60kph, but i would hope that a cyclist would use thier survival instincts and think about the trip ahead and realise the situation they are quite possibly putting themselves into and reroute their ride accordingly.

Its for these reasons and many more that i refuse to ride on the road. I will happily ride the footpath and give way to pedestrians 100% of the time, and risk the fine before i risk my life with cars. Its also because of the lycra clad knobs that think they are above the road rules and give all cyclists a bad name. You can tell them from a mile away because they are normally the ones that are wearing BMC or Rabobank kit with their uber aero bike with Zipp wheels. Until these guys are sorted out the public is not going to accept cycling. And no, i am not a perfect driver, but i dont go driving on footpaths in the CBD or run 90% of the red lights i stop at either.

flame suit on

I agree to a point with some of the above . Some people on bikes do hog the entire lane making it impossible for a motorbike to get past let alone a car ,and I'm fairly patient with them . That kind of behaviour would not have been tolerated when I was riding with the Easter Suburbs Cycling Club as a juniour 35 years ago, a stern talking to would have been the order of the day. While some drivers are downright dangerous and the rest ignorant most people have forgoten the rule of keeping left, and they have also forgotten their manners. If you're slowing people up please let them past. We are suposed to share the road.

Maybe i need to take my skirt off but there is no way in hell i would consider the road into Akuna Bay as cycle friendly, or cyclist safe. I havent ridden or driven it so please correct me if my assumption of the road is totally wrong, but after a brief look at Google maps I put it in the same basket as the Royal national Park, way out of bounds. Single lane roads with nowhere for a cyclist to get off the road and let traffic past safely are simply too much of a situation to put myself into. I can only imagine how pissed a motorist could get if they got stuck behind a cyclist on this sort of road and going by most of the scanarios hawkeye has described it only proves how imaptient we can be when stuck behind slow cyclists.

It also backs up why i say that cyclists need to look at the situations they are putting themselves into and evaluate where they are riding and the risks involved in riding where and how they do, hence the reason I keep to the trails. I understand they are entitled to a lane of the road but the way i see it i weigh 100 kilo's with my bike, the car weighs 1500 kilos..... you do the math and tell me how its going to end up if something goes wrong

Fair enough, i stand corrected, but i still wouldnt do it. 1 close call is enough for me to call it quits in situations like this. I also know how frustrated i get when stuck behind cyclists so i prefer to stay off the road. I wouldnt for a moment think to put a cyclist at risk though, i do have that level of self control and respect for others.

I ride the road a lot and sometimes in groups.
Take the whole lane with confidence and its a lot safer.
However there are a lot of variants on this and I'm always aware of trying not to piss off drivers as I don't like to give us all a bad name.
Mind you, being a cyclist or not, it still pee's me off a bit when I see a cyclist on military road, city bound, holding a whole transit lane up because they won't get up 5 mins earlier and take the safer/ slightly slower designated back streets.
They're not only risking it, they're pissing drivers off and giving us a bad wrap.
Have some common sense and take care peeps.

I'm one of those bike commuters who rides military road both ways..... I've always found it safer than the back street route. Maybe it's the time I travel at but I'm very very rarely in a position to hold anyone up. 95 days out of 100 the long tail back of buses is holding me up.... the rest of the time I'm travelling in the vicinity of 30kmh on a route with an average peak hour vehicle speed of 18kmh. If it was an otherwise fast moving dual carriageway, i'd reconsider, but honestly, Military Road in peak hour doesn't move nearly fast enough for me to hold anything up ( and believe me, I'm not a fast rider by any means).

When it gets a bit out of peak times, the speed goes up a little but that is a product of there being less cars and more space. If someone needs to get past me in a hurry, there is always room to switch lanes and overtake.

I ride sensibly, don't ride on footpaths, don't run red lights, I sit in traffic when there is no way through ( my 710 wide bars preclude riding between lines of stationary cars ), don't think about strava when there are traffic lights on the segment, let buses away before me at traffic lights etc. etc. In the years I've been commuting, the only real 'near things ' I've had have been caused by other cyclists whose desire to ride fast is in excess of their skill. (this phenomenon seems to get worse for about a month or so each July...) to them I yell out " it's not a F@$&!%G race"

But yes..... I definitely prefer the trails !

CB

"The reason more experienced cyclists take up a whole lane and ride assertively is that they have learned from sad experience it discourages stupid and dangerous passing manouvres. "

This is one of the first things they teach you when getting your motor bike licence. The more you can make people aware of your existance the more chance you have of staying alive. Move around in your lane, be a bit silly, but make people remember you are there. I know i used to look at motor bike riders thinking they were idiots but when you ride it makes perfect sense

When i ride a motor bike i have no problem with swapping sides of the lane and making a fair bit of noise, its called riding defensively, and if i was to ever ride my push bike on the road i would do the same, BUT there is no way i would sit out in that lane like some do and hog the lane. You need to understand that you are slower than a car and you are doing yourself, and the cycling community, no favours by sitting and holding up traffic. Use your head and move over occasioanally to allow any build up of traffic to pass and then start on your way again. The stop and start is also great for training and fitness isnt it, which i thought was a big part of why we ride bikes

lol, Cadel Evans must be a busy man as i swear i see him all over Sydney nearly every day of the week

I have nothing to add to the original topic but I can guarantee you that I'll have the bike song in my head next time I'm out on a ride

Out of earshot of the grommets I assume!

(You've just prompted a mental picture of junior out the front of your place on the footpath on 12" bike letting rip shocking the neighbours with the chorus at the top of his lungs! Lol!)

As someone who spends at least 12hrs on the road (driving) every day, I can tell you that the holiday traffic is the worst. All of those idiots who only drive on weekends are out in force every day of the holidays!

You can pick them, they're the ones that are sitting in the right lane, furiously gripping the steering wheel, staring at their speedo (not in the mirrors) and making sure they are doing at least 15k's under the signposted speed limit (speeding kills you know, just ask the government, they'll tax ya for it!!). Just ask 'em they are the safest driver's they know!!

Get back on the buses and trains, it makes your wallets safe and the roads safer for the rest of us....

Is it really the rider, or all the single-occupant vehicles choking the other lanes that stops your bus overtaking?

I think people need to look further in front than the tip of their nose, to the real root cause: too many cars on the roads, courtesy of a failed public transit system and a self-centred "me first" culture.

I'm on my Motherfucking bike......Love it.

Dont get me started on Retai hrs. Retail hrs are out of controll. Westfields do nothing for society. They screw small business, They do nothing for staff. Toilets are filthy 90% of the time. I have nowhere to put My bike If I choose to comute to my place of work. I have nowhere to have a shower either.

Shopping centre Owners are worse than banks. At least banks try to do something for thier staff. Or at least the staff they decided to keep.

why do we need to be open sundays? Its not for the consumer. Its so westfield can justify thier rents.

OK I admit I need to get out of retail. Perhaps I'm still stuck in the 80's.

on my return commute between 4pm and 5pm. This is when bikes do hold up traffic. From 5pm they only hold up from Spit Junction onwards towards the beaches.

The YouTube also shows another reason why the bus can't overtake the bike during peak time as it cant merge with gridlock and has its top speed capped to that of the bike significantly reducing the buses average speed. This reduces the effectiveness of the transport lanes. At least you turned off to the left before the climb. You also seemed to hold reasonable speed down the hill, far more than many commuters who also chose not to use the cycle way. Again I will restate it is the return journey where bikes cause the biggest hold up when traffic is relatively free flowing

I personally don't believe one user should unreasonably hold up 100 others or more just because they have a right to do so. There are plenty of things we have a right to do that are bad ideas. This is me-ism at some of its most annoying and reflects badly on all things cycling. This behaviour is the reason some in the state government are anti cycling.

The problems you have with merging again seem to be that a bike can't easily get up to the speed of the flowing traffic and is viewed as an obstacle. Merging is no issue when you can get up to the traffic speed easily.

The Sydney reality is we don't have bike friendly roads through lack of space and planning. Our traffic speeds at 60km/h on narrow urban streets are also much higher than a lot of bike friendly cities.

I have commuted on bike regularly my entire life from age 8 by bike until recently in Sydney and never put myself in a position where I hold up traffic or travel at a speed that is beyond the bikes braking ability for the traffic conditions.

My beef is with slow moving individual bikes holding up buses in transit lanes by inconsiderate riders that believe that this is a right they can reasonably exercise with no consideration to other road users.

This occurs often in the afternoon commute when traffic is largely free flowing with speeds up to 60km/h.

Trying to justify this right by saying the real problem is the cars does not provide a practical solution and will only perpetuate the annoyance between road riders and other road users.

This city will not see a significant change in commuter transport mix until there are safe and viable options with appeal to the wider community.

What you are saying is correct from an idealistic point of view in terms of the space each vehicle takes on the road. However riding bikes doesn't yet have much appeal for what is a very large percentage of the population in a city with hills and large distances between houses and workplaces.

Ones that ride from Cremorne to Sydney Road that really do my head in. Spit Road all the way...

Perhaps tell them about the Strava KOM segmet up Pirrawee & Battle boulvard.....LOL.

It would be nice to fix up the all stops buses.

Unfortunately they are needed to cover all the combinations of people's start and end points in a viable public transport system. People can also jump between all stops and express/limited stop buses by making use of the transfer system with the same ticket.

What we need for the all stops buses are more Layovers where the all stop buses can pull off the transit lane rather than blocking it. There are a few city bound between the spit bridge and just before Mosman. We'd need to flatten some buildings to do this between Mosman and Neutral Bay. Wynyard can be further resolved with a underground interchange linking with the train station and using the cross city tunnel as an exit. Some of the tunnels and caverns already exist from old unused rail infrastructure.

I've only seen one guy go directly up Manly Road from Spit Bridge to the Sydney Road intersection in six years commuting. I thought WT? that was pretty dumb. Maybe he was running late for something. *Everyone* goes up Battle Boulevard. Same deal with Parriwi Rd heading in, where you saw me turn left in the vid.

If you're only doing 30 down the hill from Spit Junction to the Bridge, you're either lame or facing a stiff headwind ... or caught in traffic.

if you're only doing 30 down the approach to Spit Bridge, you'd be ... a bus. That's the truck and bus speed limit until you get onto the flat bit, courtesy of some nasty crashes (fatality?) involving buses and heavy vehicles a few years ago.

We already have plenty of safe cycling infrastructure. They're called roads. I'm not a fan of infrastructure apartheid. RTA's (RMS now) relegation of cyclist priority to bottom of the food chain at all the light-controlled intersections involving Clover's cycle lanes in the CBD is just one example of why my trust in the RMS to do the fair thing by cyclists is broken.

Why are we so angry at cyclists here in Australia and NZ? The main problem is the vilification of cyclists as an out group. Very sad to see that extended to transportation cyclists on a site like this. Very different in Europe, where riding a bike to get somewhere is a part of everyday life for most people. Terrain has nothing to do with it, it's the same problem in all Australian capital cities.

The primary problem with cyclist safety (and therefore cycling uptake) is driver attitudes.

There are plenty of flat sections of road that I mentioned as well and also back streets available with posted cycle routes.

These are more appropriate for slow moving bikes than the minimum allowable lane widths on the other roads with 60km/h speed limits and high traffic volumes.

I'm disappointed that you believe I am vilifying all road riding commuters.

All I am saying is that consideration needs to go both ways and it's not just car drivers that need to be more considerate.

I have always been very careful to not hold up traffic or place myself in this situation and have not had many of the experiences you have shared. Most of my commuting experience has been in NZ and Germany where suitable infrastructure has been provided where roads have had higher speeds or narrow lane widths with no verges.

These verges while not ideal to ride on for the reasons you have mentioned at least provide a temporary place to pull over to let vehicles by.

I have also spent plenty of years driving slow moving vehicles with restrictions less than the posted speed limit. It is a courtesy to pull over and let people get by. It is also possible to be fined if we do not.

What posted speed limit in free flowing traffic do you believe a bike could reasonably ride in where there is no room to overtake?

Not you specifically, it was a general comment directed at those who talk with antipathy about "the lycra brigade", and at Australian driver culture in general, some of which has been exhibited in a couple of the comments made here.

Consideration does indeed need to go both ways. We're in furious agreement.

Unfortunately the consequences for cyclists of drivers not exercising that consideration are many times worse than for other road users where cyclists fail to reciprocate.

The strategies cyclists develop for dealing with the risk of those disproportionate consequences will often look like inconsiderate behaviour to the uninitiated (eg, riding "big" in the centre of the lane, instead of in the door zone).

So... instead of assuming the guy is just being a selfish dick, maybe take a moment to instead ask yourself why he might be riding there, in that way.

The guy may well be a selfish dick, but in my experience that is much less common.

"Riding the footpath

... would be breaking the law. Which I do some times when I feel it is safer to do so, but the problem with doing it to let a bus past is you can't get back on the road safely and you end up being stuck high and dry riding illegally on the footpath ... or risk being hit.

So it's safer not to yield your position. Same as why I stay in the middle lane when there are cars parked in the kerbside lane even when there are sizeable gaps between cars. Inevitably, being courteous and letting people through is rewarded by some arse not letting you back out and forcing you into the door zone, nearly clipping your bars, or running into you. So if that's how I'm going to be rewarded for being nice, well I'll put my own safety first, thanks."

Its good to see you agree that cycling has no place on Sydney roads as they currently are. Its for these exact reasons you have stated that this is my belief.

The one thing i am grateful of though is the fact you use the road and not dodge in and out of the gaps. A pet hate of mine is the cyclist that thinks he has the right to jump between lanes at 20kph without looking over his shoulder to check if they can change lanes safely and then also do it without signalling their intent to change lanes...... as a motorist i need to signal my intent to change lanes when a lane ends so you need to do the same. Sure i can drive to the conditions, but generally that would require me to stop almost every time you do it which would then mean the cyclist has caused the traffic jam You should be looking over your shoulder to ensure the lane change will be done safely and if the traffic is either flowing too quickly or is unable to slow down safely to let you in, stop and wait until it is safe to change lanes, not just change lanes whenever you feel like it

Am i anti cycling, not at all. I just believe that a lot of cyclists need to show some respect to those around them and the road rules. And before someone says motorists are as bad as cyclists, I am more than happy for you to come and sit with me on the corner of Kent and King in the city. You can count the red light running cyclists and i will count the red light running motor vehicles. While we are at it, you may as well count the road using cyclists and i will count the bike lane using motorists. I will be more than happy to give you my pen when yours runs out

Maybe Simon could run some classes for those ignorant ones on how to be courteous and polite on Sydney roads, motorists included