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A new game - spot the MTBer scumming it, AKA The Undercover Riders
Having recently begun commuting Nth Sydney to Nth Ryde I find myself a) bored brainless and b) amazed at how many cyclists there are on the cycleway.
In an effort to relieve the tedium of the 13k ride I have devised a game to amuse myself - spot the MTBer doing training/undercover as a scummer. There are a number of attributes you can look at that give clues as to the likelihood, all unreliable, but anyhow.
So, I have developed a scoring system, and am seeking some further input. It goes like this - attribute A, likelihood range 1-5 (1 least 5 highest) subtlety level 1-5 (1 least 5 most).
So, for example, some easily identifiable attributes:
1- dude is riding a MTB (a real one, not a $50 Big W unit) likelhood (L) 5 subtlety(S) 1, total 6
2- riding a MTB with slicks or skinnies L 3 S 1 = 4 - why only L3? not many MTBers would run the risk of ruining their drive train by swapping wheels in and out, or potentially dedicate one of the stable to road work.
3 - hairy legs L 3 S 2 = 5. Most serious scummer shave their legs, so do a few serious MTBers - but not most.
4 - SPDs for clip ons L 2 S 3 = 5. Hard to figure out on the fly, but if they are muddy shoes OR MTB shoes L = 5 and S 2
5 - light bracket on helmet - L5 S1 = 6. Don't know any scummers that would put a light on the helmet. Another helmet characteristic is a visor - L4 S2 = 6. Scummers prefer caps under their lightweight helmets.
6 - high end carbon fibre road bike - L1 S1 = 2 most MTBers rather spend it on bling for the beast. Conversely serviceable but slightly neglected roadie - L3 S1
7 - wearing baggy shorts instead of lycra - L 2 S1= 3 not really a good one but may be used to up the overall score. I personally wear lycra (bashful admission) but it is counterpointed by my hairy legs
8 - clothing obviously for MTB L4 S1 = 5 - some folks just don't like skin tight stuff for riding, so not that reliable
9 - multi-sport back pack L3 S1 = 4
10 - drink bottle from Dirtworks or similar - L5 S5 = 10 hard to spot those pesky things on the fly.
So a total score might look like this, using myself for an example:
hairy legs - 5
SPDs - muddy - 7
Drink bottle - 10
helmet visor - 6
pack - 4
Total 32 from 5 attributes overall likelihood is high.
God I must be bored outta my brain...!!!
What else? Improvements? More attributes? Can't figure out a possible maximum really, so an average seems best...
Clearly a sliding scale can be developed on the fly for variants.
The subtlety score is to keep you looking hard. If one had the brain power you could keep a dual running total so that the higher subtlety levels make for a better overall performance, could even be a weighting.
Enjoy
cheers
M
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A true roadie is more likely to 'race face' you as they pass.
IMO most MTB'ers would at least give a nod, or wave or smile... Roadies seem a little more elitist.
Agreed.
hmm score - maybe a L3 S3
I score in every dept.. well done!
p.s. there is no way those hairs are coming off my legs
I can't agree more with you Sean. When I am out scumming I have given up acknowledging other scummers as you get nothing back. Totally different to when you are out on the trails.
Yeah I think you have most bases covered. Certainly applies for me.
I ride my old Giant hardtail with slick tyres on it.
I use Time pedals and the same muddy shoes that I use on the weekend.
I don't shave my legs.
I wear baggy pants with knicks under and a T-Shirt.
I wear my same muddy Camelbak as on the weekends.
I use the same Fox Flux camo helmet that I wear off road.
I think MTB riders also avoid tiny cracks in the road less than scummers. It is quite amusing following them watching them dodge every tiny thing on the road.
Don't forget an MTB rider thinks nothing of riding up and down kurbs (even on a scum bike - they don't choose fragile race rubbish to commute on) and the bridge ramp. MTB riders wear event jerseys or NoBMoB gear or MTB-OZ socks (we need some NoBMoB socks)
Would MTB riders would be less likely to ride on the drops?
I qualify for all those, plus SPD pedals & shoes, camelbak, event bottle, hairy legs, friendly (yes I am!
Even lend tools to people stopped fixing their scum machines).
How about
1) A scummer would ride up behind you draft for a while then sprint past, or
2) If you rode up behind a scummer they would start flicking their elbow rather than talk to you.
3) When passing a car or shop window a scummer would try to admire their reflection in the windows.
4) A scummer will use every red traffic light as a chance to pose off track standing at the front of the cars.
Go Big or Go Home
How about a bit of riding skill? Presumably because their bikes don't handle, scummers take the wide line around any corner that even approaches tight. How many close-call head ons I've had I couldn't count. MTB-ers generally seem to stick between the lines and hook it in around the corners.
I ride that bloody cycleway 12 times a week...
Hmm not tooo sure about that one Rob. After 4 flats and only 3 tubes one notable morning on a longer commute I tend to be a bit careful on the kerbs..... biike isn't reaaally a racer but it is a bit delicate - not exactly a crosser sadly...
----------------------------------------------
if at first you don't succeed, try not to look astonished.
Yes - corners... coming off the bridge on the City side a scummer will slow down and stay on the flat part of the path, whereas an MTB rider will not brake and take the slightly angled left side as a berm
The best fun part of the commute in to the city is definitely the 'berm' at the end of the bridge cycle path ... followed by the left turn and speed hump. I usually try to rail it as fast as possible but frequently get caught by roadies who seem to want to brake all the way down the ramp, stay completely upright and pick a nice smooth flat line. I've ended up on the grass a couple of times trying to avoid them ( particularly annoying when they feel the need to race past me on the approach....).
The 'race face' is a mystery to me... I always make a point of saying hello to the roadies as they pull out and sprint past. As they sprint away, you can see them trying to decide if they should say something or not, by which time it's too late. I like to think of them spending the rest of their trip questioning their humanity !
btw.
575 but with 700c wheels ( yes, bizzare but it works for me )
knicks ( but that's what I wear offroad)
Ground Effect top
egg beaters
seriously muddy NW shoes
DW Bottle ( until I lost it at the Angry Doctor)
Giro E2 with big visor
very hairy legs ( goes with the rest of me...)
unlock the fork and aim for the bumpy bits
launch off of speed humps
CB
do you guys STILL try and convince yourselves that it's uncool/unfriendly/unwhatever to ride a road bike.
:) 
:) 
:) 
:)
what is quite obvious is that out of about the top 90% of the fittest guys and girls on this site. about 90% of them ride the road, and as a result of being fitter they do better in races and enjoy a hard day in the saddle a lot more which results in a lot more satisfaction in riding and we all know that satisfaction=smiles:)
nuff said!
Hey - this thread isn't about whether it's cool to scum or not (no - do not go there!)... it's about how to spot scummers.
If (rider.reply == true) {MTB = true
run(chat fn)
}
Else {
Scummer = true
run(blow past scummer up the hill fn)
}
My tell-tale signs.
but what if i wear exactly the same gear for scumming as i do for off road? even my sidi shoes are the same model apart from grippy soles on my mtb pair! oh how i would confuse you all!!!!!!!
its about how to spot MTBers in training OR as closet scummers.
Gazza, I am a commited long time MTBer but for a variety of reasons find my arse on the roadie seat more than the MTB most weeks, and have participated in a few events, even,
I don't think it uncool to be a roadie, but lets face it, its BORING! Although, a good reason to buy more bike bling of a different variety.
So, as Rob says, not about whether tis cool or not, just how to tell if your fellow scummer might be a mtb'er in disguise. Actually just something to amuse myself other than dodging cars buses pedestrians and runners...
Love the code lozza, but we need an ELSEIF for hybrid riders - wtf do they fit in??
I did say it was unreliable....
you would score high in the subtlety scale, if there were any tell tale signs.
Two pairs of identical shoes?? O dear - not so sure about closet scummer - sounds like dedicated to me
how can you call it boring???? at the end of the day, i'm a cyclist brother, and love almost every aspect of it. PEACE!
There are the hybrids as well...
I put them in with the k-mart huffy riders
ie, n00bs who know nothing about bikes
Go one way or the other! haha I don't exactly know whats so hybrid about them anyway? They can only ride on the road? I'd never take one off-road!
whether it be a MTB or a roadie. I've done a few longish road rides which are more interesting, but commuting - jeez its just training really.
Now, hybrids - I once took a bunch of guys I didn't know well out to the RNP and one little whippet turned up on a hybrid, and not only kept up but kicked arse!! I was amazed those skinny little wheels took it.
Some hybrid riders are possibly MTBers who don't want to buy a road bike or are into trekking...
Scumming does produce fitter riders because of the amount of uninterrupted road they have to ride and practice on. If fire trail / sniggle was available in the same quantity MTB'ers would at least be the equal to scummers for fitness.
Imagine that 100's of kilometres of trails to practice on at speed - all the benefits of riding on the road and none of the boredom and life threatening situations.
Besides the cars the other problems with road riding is that a) it's about as exciting as kissing your mother-in-law and b) it doesn't hone the bike handling skills as much as mountain bike riding. Sure they can ride close together when it's smooth and flat and not too windy but when they get to a MTB race i.e. Dirt Works they are just rubbish. It is such a joy at the Dirt Works to watch the roadies start to clench whenever there is a downhill and then to scream past them (yelling track) while they gently pick their way around the pebbles with white knuckles and elevated heart rates.
Go to the road for fitness but to the bush for skills.
Go Big or Go Home
as Rob says, don't want to start a roadie vs mtb thread...
just sharing a game and hoping some others might find it amusing.
you're right. Sorry for getting off topic! And buzz, i wont see you on any of the downhill's at dirtworks as i would have left you on the first uphill!
One of the most obvious tell tell signs with me is that I constantly forget to point out things (i.e. branches or debris) when I ride with my triathlon club and also wonder why they're pointing out stuff to me. I usually go straight over it
I don't think you could tell with me from what I wear.
Helmet - no visor at any time
Bottle - courtesy of whoever gives me one for free
Shoes - Shimano for road/Bontrager for mtb
Knicks - the same for any riding
Jersey - the same for any riding
Camelback - only on longer mtb rides (don't bother with shorter rides)
Anyway, it sounds like a fun game, Kiwiboy. I think I would exhaust myself with the point scoring system.
I walk to and from work every day (Woolloomooloo/City). I call it my third space - clearing my head of everything that's been going on during the day and transition into the person I like to be at home
To be honest I usually get about two things and then we are past unless happened to be at the lights or going same direction. Subtlety factor doesn't typically enter in to it too much. More fun concocting it while riding that trying to score
whenever I go on a bunch ride or with a group I'm the same - forget to point out stuff and ride right over branches and potholes, forget to indicate stops and turns and stuff - d'oh!
I don't know if I have been lucky but when I ride to work I've yet to be "taken" by a roadie. Plenty overtake me, but in my stubborn mentality I WILL NOT BE BEATEN, and I have to catch them and pass them back at all costs. Disclaimer: I do ride in to the city quite late in the morning, with all the grandads and back runners
kiwiboy, I take this thread with the jovial pinch of salt I'm sure you intended, and anyone out there on a bike is a friend in my eyes.. just as they are fair game as well. There are a lot of people up for a friendly race.. my favourite is the hill on the north side of the SHB going up towards Pacific Highway to the top, If you've been giving it the berries on the bridge that hill can make or break a race. My failing is that I won't run the red lights, and virtually all the other riders run them which can create quite a gap
It's all good fun.
Haha - they might be drafting
Going the same speed as you with 30% less energy. It's a shame it's illegal in triathlons 
yes racing on the bridge is so true! lol
my lungs are busting by the time i reach the union hotel!
I have noticed that being on a single speed has its drawbacks, on the flat or hills you get smashed by a serious rider as I cannot spin fast enough but on the hills you go past them!
Lorrie
Kiwiboy,
What about their physique? Most roadies well developed legs but they have the chest, shoulders and arms of an African refugee.
Gazza - that sounds like a Dirt Works challenge! Although I usually don't make a point of competing against "old" men like yourself, you probably need the incentive to get your lard ass of the sofa.
Let me know when you get an entry, get fit and brush up on your riding skills and I'll open a can of whoop ass for you.
Go Big or Go Home
Good point Buzz, they are all a little underdeveloped. However I have also observed this in some of my MTB colleagues. L2 S2 I think.
I would be a deal giveaway as a non-roadie - constitution and physique of the average bear
Power to weight ratio is my enemy EXCEPT on downhill - then gravity is my friend.
And them's fighting words, sounds like the *slap* of the gauntlent on the table..
I like the berm at the end of the SHB offramp as well. Trouble is, I go right and then ride down the two ramps into the tunnel, so I gotta be on the brakes. Haven't grown the balls yet to do the ramps at the northern end.
Cannondale F1000 but with 700c wheelset (get lots of comments from scummers: WTF is that!?
) - 6 + 4 =10
- zero
*Very* hairy legs - 5
knicks - don't have shyshorts and my boardies catch the seat.
SPDs - 5
permanently muddy Vittoria mtb shoes - 7
Hydration bladder in backpack - 4?
Fox Flux helmet with Ayup mounting bracket 6 + 6 = 12
unlock the fork except for when I need to run an uphill pinch out of the saddle
Don't hop kerbs much - my timing sucks.
Ah, gloves. You forgot the gloves. Fox full-finger something-or-others.
Here are another couple of tell-tales:
- drops bum back down behind seat when hard on the brakes
- coasts with pedals at 9 and 3 o'clock instead of 12 and 6.
.. I can't help but point out that Adrian managed to kick your arse on a couple of night rides and he doesn't scum...
Kiwiboy - I love your game and will play from the safety of my car... I am not silly enough to commute!
Gazza I just noticed you are a little worried I might leave you behind at the first hill, "And buzz, i wont see you on any of the downhill's at dirtworks as i would have left you on the first uphill!". Do worry I will wait for you at the top then give you a chance to recover so we can continue the lesson.
Alternatively you can just go in the 50k and I'll go in the 100k - I think I get 2 hours head start so that will give you a slim chance to be first across the line.
Go Big or Go Home
2 - Yep, riding my old MTB hardtail with skinny fats 2 = 4
3 - hairy legs=5
4 - SPDs for clip ons muddy shoes OR MTB shoes = 7
5 - helmet characteristic is a visor - 6
7 - wearing baggy shorts instead of lycra 3
8 - clothing obviously for MTB = 5
9 - muddy hydration pack L3 S1 = 4
34..stick out like a saw thumb
I found I was breaking spokes from bunny hopping too much on my hardtail when road riding..does anyone else have this problem or is it time for a wheel rebuild ?
One other I just thought of ( and one that I'm guilty of a lot...)
Grabbing 2 or three times for the bite valve before remembering that you don't use a camelback on your commute. I've had some wierd looks doing this ( usally on a monday morning after a big ride on the Sunday)
CB