You are hereDown from 45min 18months ago
Down from 45min 18months ago
Date:
8 Sep 09
Challenge:
Manly Dam - Main Circuit
Time:
00:33:46 Hydro start/ finish, on the Roscoe 1 with flats, Maxxis Ardent 2.35 both ends.
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That's a good time and on flats too. You'd be able to take a couple more minutes off with clip ins.
Thanks. Bike had clips as standard and I persevered for 5 months of cuts and bruises from stacks. Unclipping just didn't become natural so I became tentative and got off at anything challenging. Have changed back to the flats and am enjoying my riding so much more. I appreciate what the clips offered me now I'm back in flats and slipping/bouncing off occassionaly. But overall with my lack of skill and fitness I'm happier with flats for most rides. Having said that I'll probably put them back on for any of the easier races. Hope to see you on the trails.
As one who has steadfastly refused to move on to clip ins, all I will say is that on every Mountain Bike video I have watched so far, from The Collective to Chain Reaction to Latitudes, I don't believe I have ever seen anyone using clip ins. And those guys all go bloody fast and are bloody good.... for instance I saw one scene where there bike computers were showing in excess of 80mph down single track....
After 8 months of riding on flats, I almost never slip or bounce off the pedals anymore. And I will dispute anyone saying that you get more power and/or speed with clip ins.... you get the same if you use proper pedaling technique and form with flats.... those movies above prove that, I think. Clip ins just make it easier (or should that be lazier?
) And it's always safer being able to get your foot down on the ground instantly.
Ok, bring on the flames... but just remember, "to each their own".
Col
P.S. Well done on the time too!
Col,
How do you apply power to the upstroke with flats?
Definitely to each to their own but for me it'll come down to where and what I'm riding. Aren't those DVDs you watched freeride / downhill / big mountain style riding? If you watched DVDs that focusd on enduros or pure XC I really doubt you'd see riders running flats. This is both for performance and weight reasons.
As an interesting fact I noticed while at the World Champs over the weekend. Due to Stromlo being on the flatter and more pedally side of what the DH pros ride, I noticed a majority running clip ins with platforms, a lot of CrankBrothers mallets. Peaty has always run clip ins for DH where as Hill usually rides flats.
I had a quick chat with him and he had actually been playing with both during the week leading up to the race as he was looking at whether drifting was an option in places.
It's not my intention to start a debate on technique here... I'm hardly experienced enough for that. But I still have an opinion on this.
I will say power to the upstroke isn't technically necessary to get consistent speed... you have two cranks, so one is providing power as part of a downstroke at any particular time, so with good technique and fitness 'downstroke only with flats' can often be as effective ON THE TRACK as what you get with clip ins. Sure it can't stand up on a straight flat road or track comparison, but on the trail... well hell, I can keep up with those riding with clips in. And I refer you again to those movies I mentioned in the previous post.
Yes, those dvd's are mostly about downhill and freeride type stuff. But when it comes to fast lap times around short tracks, which is what we are talking about here, isn't that exactly the sort of riding we're talking about? That is, akin to freeride or downhill? Cause we're going for as fast as possible through technical terrain, rather than the sustained endurance modulated pace of pure XC. I won't argue that for endurance based events the clip ins have the advantage. But aren't we talking fastest lap in this thread? That's when the riding tends more toward the sort of riding in those videos. So I still believe that the stock some people put in clips in over flats is somewhat unjustified in some circumstances... which I figure is a result of us basically being a XC only group, so only seeing this from that XC perspective.
Colt
I some times ride the roadie as well I have clipins on both the technique I was shown i use the same on both bikes pull ,push , heel down ankle bent , as they say is all too all, I have disagreements with both but both have benefits
Happy riding
No those movies prove for free riders who want to do big jumps and stunts or dhers who like the footout drifting style flat pedal are the way to go...
But it is horses for courses.
And just because Sam blasts every one down the big alpine courses now just means they are good for the way he rides. More world championship down hill races have been won in clipless than flat pedal. Take a look back at Nicho V. He is the most winningest Dh rider ever and was all but untouchable, all using clipless
As for more power and effiency you absolutely get more with clipless. Not only by being able to pull up but also being able to pull past the dead zone at TDC and BDC where on a flat pedal your feet are just passengers.
I can get my foot off a set of clipless far quicker then I can get them off a proper DH pedal with five tens, It's the getting back in that could be an issue,
On a very rough DH trail where you want to be able to get your foot off but then get in on quick and power out of the corner Flats become the better option.
I almost never dab my feet when ride so clipless for DH and XC suit me fine.
Sorry to say but I'm afraid I dispute anyone saying that you DON'T get more power and/or speed with clip ins. The improvement is undeniable in my experience.
I hated "clip-ins" at first, but I couldn't go back now I have developed my pedalling technique to use the full circle. I reckon you gain at least 20% if you train you legs to use the whole stroke.
In Brian Lopes own words
doing dirtworks 100 in flats was enough motivation to go clip ins, I went for the Crank Bros Mallets as they really a flat peddle with the egg beater thingy in the middle.
I can now ride flat over the crazy stuff ( such as red hill ) and clip in for something more sedate like perimeter/long.
I've done a few longer rides since i got clipped in and to me its like chalk and cheese when it comes to being able to share the love around the muscles in the legs so I can ride longer with the same set of legs.
It really is an enjoyment issue for me at the moment. I simply enjoy my riding more with flats than clipless. I ended up using the clipless for Dirtworks (first ever 100km race) and can honestly say I didn't enjoy the race much because the whole time I was wondering what might be around the corner, over the next drop etc and would I have enough time to unclip and get out of the way of those behind charging on (I appreciate if I'd trained on the course it would have been easier knowing what lay ahead). On the grind along the ridge near the end and road home was a different story, the clips were great. I also recall from the Nowra MTB 101 (50km only) mates who had clipless hated the course because of it's technical/sandy nature and they were constantly clipping in and out, whereas I was on my older bike using flats and would just "have a go" at most things without concern for needing to unclip if it got messy. I think I might need to put the fun away for a lap of the dam and put the clipless back on to get some evidence re speed/efficiency......tbc
I've been clipping into my road bike for 15 years. I understand the benefits of doing so. That being said my technique must be crap because I have no problem switching to flats on the mtb.
When I'm on the mtb I'm having fun and I have more fun on flats.
Flynny's point about getting back in was spot on. Too many times I've pulled out stalling at a technical section and have had too walk it because I couldn't get a proper grip on the pedals when trying to restart. I was using was using old shimano platform / clips and maybe better pedals would change this.
Finally (2 months) got around to putting the clipless pedals back on the bike. Did a hot lap and while it was quicker than my initial hot lap it was actually 20 seconds slower than my recent PB. Too close to read any significant advantage for clipless but....I must admit it felt good to have them back on!! Left home with great reservations and contemplating how many times I would fall off only to have an uneventful lap and enjoyed the sureity the clips gave me. A bit annoyed I didn't use them for the Fling now. I think the next test might be some faster tyres.....
Cool... you can just keep on posting new lap times as a new thread... that way the record is preserved.
Reckon you'll be much faster in clipless once used to them.