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red hill sampler
Red Hill Reserve car park, off Lady Penryhn Drive, Beacon Hill. Another option is to ride over here from Oxford Falls.
A tour of the hill for anyone that's up for it.
Its not a Downhill ride, nor is it an XC ride.. lets just call it a technical ride
Planning about a 15K ride, no real need for armor, i don't wear it (famous last words?) but of course your more than welcome to wear it as there will be plenty of opportunities to go crazy ( if your into that kinda thang ).. you just gotta be prepared to wear it for some uphill as well.
WARNING, this is no easy Saturday morning Lycra clad trail ride down to the cafe to eat some cheese with your soy latte.. you can really break your body here, be sure to have your personal details on a tag in your left shoe and remember to say goodbye to loved ones before you head off for the morning, couldn't hurt to have a current life insurance policy and an updated Will.
Although the hill is classed as "super your sure to kill yourself super technical", B-lines are abundant and you can walk what you cant ride (I generally walk a lot of them).
If it rains rains rains (yes three of them) much more between now and Saturday.. the ride will be canceled?moved to Sunday if possible.
Were you there and have a story to tell?
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sounds good
Which tracks are you planning to ride? Are you including the rim ride?
Not really set on any particular route, but I'd guess that I'll head down over the past the carvings, single track to the start of the rim ride, then rim ride, back down through towards cromer connector, single track to the sports center then back up ( hike a bike ) to the cromer connector, then back up to the single tracks that head over to 4wd folly and back up 100M hill ( more hike a bike ) to the carvings and then the ride back to the cars.
Sounds great
, but unfortunately it conflicts with a regular appointment in my schedule (physio).
if you're looking to do this anytime on a weekend afternoon or sparrows fart Sunday morning, I'd be interested.
I consider that a bit too technical to be calling it a XC ride though!
not too technical, I ride the B-lines anyhow.
its a non DH ride, would that be AM?
praps just drop the classification and call it a ride
can get too hung up on labels
...about the only part you are missing out on doing is the drop zone - that ride isn't XC... we took a fairly new rider up there who can ride most of the dam (except the steps and rock at the top of the boardwalk) we did the rim ride and part of four wheel drive folly, their very strong comments was its NOT a xc ride.. red hill is our most techy northside ride hey...
OK.. edited it, my intention is to go for my usual bi-weekly red hill ride while offering to be tour guide to anyone that's not familiar with the hill.
I don't do the Drop Zone ( to technical for me ) and although there's plenty of other places up there to bend/break yourself, I find the Rim Ride is about the highest level of scary that I do and even then its not too bad when tackled with some common sense ( lend me some? )
I cant ride the rock at the top of the boardwalk of the dam neither, but I still thoroughly enjoy my red hill rides and "almost" all of the time escape with the same amount of skin that I started with.
who cares what it is as long as you have fun and ride as hard as you can or not
Red Hill is sooo much fun... It's my #1 destination for riding which helps since I live right there!!!
But, I think it is completely irresponsible to post Red Hill as a XC ride where pads are not neccessary... there is nothing XC about 4wd Folly. Nor is there much XC to the rim ride. Cromer connection past pink rock would almost classify as XC I guess, but to lead a group of riders with varied experience around red Hill who are under the impression its barely one step above riding a fire trail is a no no.
go and read the ride desrition posted by rob on this site for a good example..
Sorry obmal, I know you love Red Hill, but you wouldnt want others getting hurt from a dodgy brief on the place would you?
... I am withdrawing my nomination.
As you can tell I have never ridden there and have NFI
one persons XC is anothers FR etc etc
once there were no distinctions between and it was a ride
seems times have moved ahead of me
(although if one is leading others from a website then clarity is important)
So i agree but with some fondness for what once was
since you are 'recovering' and as far as i understand, mainly sticking to fire trail it probably wouldn't be the best place for you right now, it has loads of rocks - there ARE two or three single tracks that have no rocks at all but they don't add up to lots of k's, they are pretty though! It isn't the smoothest of rides - fantastic fun but not smooth!
Matt - you made me laugh then! But personally, for me FR is the downhill at Red Hill or Oxford Falls...they are cool - just a shame I can't ride them!
I'm in!
Yep if you have a hard tail you will be doing a bit of walking to get round the tricky stuff.
Thanks blondie - that's consistent with the view I had of Red Hill from Hugh Flower's trail guide from a few years ago. It's just when somebody mentioned "XC" I thought there might be some less scary options worth investigating. Apparently not!
The hand is doing OK - rode from AH down to the hydro lab on Australia day, but I'm well familiar with that section. Tackling new and unfamiliar tech trail sections might be stretching my luck a little too far for now. Thanks for looking out for me.
On the subject of what's classed as XC and what’s not.
I went to Stromlo last weekend with a few riders and I had a look at the Hammerhead for the first time. For those that don't know this is a technical section that has been used on rounds of National and International top-level XC races. It consists of a series of steep rock roll downs and it claims a fair few casualties during races.
Out of the half a dozen riders that went I went up there with, only one attempted and made it, and only just. Also to note, he was on an 8" travel DH bike! I attempted the B line and still managed to come off and roll my ankle! The top XC riders do this on hardtails, which I still can't believe after seeing and attempting it first hand. RESPECT.
I've been to Red hill a couple of times now and I managed most of what I have seen, so compared to Stromlo I would say Red Hill is a tame XC ride.
Seriously, most average riders are going to find Red Hill technical and will probably be happier in armour, but you don't have to be riding technical trails to where Armour. The worst accident I've had recently was in the Royal National Park, which most would be classed by most as easy or for beginners. Of cause I didn't need my armour that day and came away from that ride covered in scratches and bruises!!!!
Hey guys - how wet do you reckon this trail is going to be - does it drain ok? Not been out there before and would love to join in but not so keen if it's going to trash the bike. Just that there's been a lot of rain already this week right?
I had avoided red hill but finally ventured up there a few months back with a few other riders to see what it was like. It certainly proved to be a lot of fun until I approached a section of rocks I was unsure about and decided to get off and walk. After unclipping, my left foot slipped on the rocks and I fell down the slope. Nothing too dramatic.
I didn't think I had done much damage to myself until I looked at my right calf. It's amazing how much damage a chainring can do to you! Let's just say "chicken fillets" if you get my drift. I'm one of those cautious ones that pack a couple of 1st aid bandages just in case. Never had a need to use them but bloody glad I had them that day. This was followed by an hour's walk (or rather hobbling) to get to the nearest road and then 5 hours at Manly hospital where I got 13 stitches. Still, the scar is a nice little memento.
So lessons I learnt that day are... 1) 1st aid bandages are definitely work carrying with you, 2) always take a mobile phone, and 3) drop the saddle if you're tackling more technical sections.
agree with your comments.
and I absolutely love my joplin seatpost
Hey guys,
I would love to join you for this ride. Been riding Manly Dam too much and starting to get bored with it so want some new challenges and trails. The problem is I only have one wheel, so don't know if I'll be able to keep up with ya'll. If there is lots of climbing than I should have no problem, but it's the downhills that kill me as I can't coast on a unicycle nor have gears. I can ride everything at Manly Dam, but usually have 1-4 falls on various sections here and there, and my best time is 50 minutes for a lap. Hope to improve that now that I'm upgrading from a 26" to a 29".
I'll print out the maps and plan to meet you ready to ride at 8:30am. Even if I get to ride the first few km's with you guys to get my bearings that'd be great and then hopefully be able to find the rest of the way with a map. Can someone call me at 04 49 222 012 if it is cancelled? Thanks!
Jamey
Red Hill is an absolute nightmare when it's wet. Does not drain well at all and turns into a giant bog.
Im in. Should be good.
Is the car park usually open? The last few times I have been there it has been closed and we have parked near the main entrance gate to the fire trail.
Thanks BT - sounds awesome!
(maybe I'll get on the roadie this weekend)
Red hill is not a very nice ride when its wet, most of it turns into a clay based sandy gear grinding paste and its been raining a fair bit. Even if it stopped raining right now, we also must not forget that it takes a fair amount of time for this place to dry out. 8-(
I'm not too keen on destroying my new cassette and chain, but fear not; I'm going to postpone/move this till Saturday week.
I haven't ridden Red Hill in ages, and even then I haven't done all of the trails out there. I'd love to be shown these ones on Satuday if it's ok.
Regards,
Nick.
I'm gonna take my name off the list, so another person can join. I'm still gonna try to show up and hopefully ride some of the trail with you guys but don't think I'll be able to keep up, but will try my best.
Im still in for this sat
Want to reconsider the dam ride... We had 195mm of rain on the weekend ( red hill is above my street) and we all know how slow it is up there to dry out, especially with more rain forecast...
I'll check it out Friday and make a call then.
Unless it is raining sat morning I'll be going no matter how muddy it is. Just gotta remember to bring a towel so i can drive the car back afterwards!
You sure you wanna do that? it really ticks off The Powers That Be.
I'm trying to portray mountain bikers as responsible at the Warringah council meeting tonight to head off a potentially major problem (although hopefully it turns out to be a non-issue) and without wanting to rain on your parade, this doesn't help.
i know some people are chomping at the bit to get out and ride after so many days of rain but we get cheesed off at the moto-x guys when they destroy the trails be it in the wet or dry, so it would be irresponsible to intentionally ride the trails in the wet or while they are in poor condition. Plus your bike will not be happy with you getting all that dirt/sand in the joints/bearings etc not to mention the wear on the pads/brakes =$$. If the trail is not in a suitable condition than maybe look at the trail status report to see what other trails are in good condition to ride.
Hawkeye, I would never ride the Dam or any single trail track when its muddy. But red hill has for decades and is still being ridden/destroyed by dirt bikes so i dont think that my one small ride makes a difference on its fire/electricity trails.
So what makes you different from every other MTB'er that you can ride soaked trails because you are just one bike but others who are just one bike can't/won't?
It would make sense to either go for a pedal on the road or find another activity if the trails are still soaked mate. Your actions as one MTB'er effect the rest of us.
might see you next ride, enjoy!!
went up there this arvo, not on the bike, i mean I actually traveled there on the bike, but only rode to the start of the cromer connector ( dry parts only and the bike did not even need a wash when it was done ) to have a look ( as i was interested in looking ) while I was near by doing some road hill training.
I really cant see it getting passable before Saturday and its not ride-able in its current state, but I'll look again Friday.
The Moto's have been..... I'll bite my tongue now.
pants I'm not wanting to pick on you, but I think just about everybody who rides the trails in the wet when they know they shouldn't rationalises it the way you just have: "my one bike won't make much difference".
And its true. It doesn't. But one guy sees another who's seen you, and another sees him, who is in turn seen by another... et cetera, and soon you have 5 or ten, and those guys together do a LOT of damage.
I wise man once said you should begin with the end in mind. What end do you have in mind want for mountain biking? More access because folks know we can be trusted to do the right thing and set an example, or less because we've demonstrated a track record of being selfish and destructive?
Your call.
But you have taken me out of context; I stated that I would only ride red hill when its wet as that track has been eroding for decades from motorbikes. My Dad was even one of them back in the early 80's. So yes, I stand by my statement that my one bike won't make much difference on that trail.
More than one person has tried help you see the light.
Just because Red Hill is eroded doesn't mean it is OK for you and your lone MTB to head up there to do more damage.
Get it?
Pants, interesting philosophy. 'Everyone else shouldn't do it, but I'm allowed to because I do it on my own'.
I accept you're on a more exalted level than us plebs with your right to further erode a muddy trail individually, however I do question your judgement.
Why would you want to ride in soggy clay when we have rugby league, rugby union, cricket and the Winter Olympics on tv this weekend? Learn to embrace the couch. You'll be a better man for it.
Oh dear... "I stand by my statement that my one bike won't make much difference on that trail."
You either get it or you don't. Let's try and break it down so everyone understands...
If everyone shared your attitude there would be 100s of bikes out on wet trails. Because every one of those 100s of riders think they are the only one, and just one bike doesn't matter. Just think about it. It's the same as when water restrictions are on and some dufus is hosing their driveway. They think they are the only one doing it, but they aren't. The whole neighbourhood is. We live in a society. We have to share resources. That's why rules and etiquette exist.
As for the fact the motos are doing the wrong thing, and the trail is already damaged by them... well... they are doing the wrong thing, so your attitude is that because someone is, you might as well? That makes you just as bad as they are.
Would you join in with a gang of muggers if you saw them beating a victim in a dark alley? I mean, the damage is already done, right? What harm would your couple of kicks do?
In case you miss the analogy... the trails are being mugged by motos, please don't join in.
1. The majority of the red hill trail that I ride starting at Cromer Heights has the sandstone bedrock already exposed. All erosion that takes place in this section does so because of the fact that the trails are already there and the surface water flow does the rest. The clayey sands that are on the trail are continually deposited on the trail by erosion from off the trail. Therefore further damage to the trail occurs because there is no vegetation on the trail to secure the surface soils.
I have riden that trail for over ten years and the only changes that I have noted on the trail have to do with people creating extra routes around technical sections or large puddles - I ride through these.
2. DavidA: I never said that 'Everyone else shouldn't do it, but I'm allowed to because I do it on my own'.
3. Motorbike riders are breaking the law by riding on that track, whereas I am not. Therefore it is not akin to mugging someone.
4. We live in a democracy and I am allowed to freely express my views.
I will be walking my dog at RH... It will be very disappointing if I see you up there.
But again you are wrong as sandstone also has the potential to erode. Also, riding through puddles does not help the situation and only makes it worse.
Moto's ARE permitted at RH as long as they are registered moto's. You don't seem to understand that as well as a lack of understanding that just because moto's do it doesnt make it OK for you.
Yes we live in a democratic society, but you don't want to play by the rules and ettiquete of society it seems
As are we...
And our view collectively is that what you are proposing to do is unhelpful, and a setback for:
* trail erosion
* setting an example to others
* trail advocacy
So again, please take the hint and don't do this.
We have this mantra of don't ride wet trails because of erosion - which is fair enough
Redhill would have to be one of the most unloved, uncared for pieces of dirt on the Northern Beaches if one looks at how it is treated by its users and its been deteriorating for many years.
It must be one of the biggest opportunities for some sustainable recreational use.
Pinging at each other about erosion, riding in the wet etc etc does not seem constructive. The place is one great erosion zone and it stays wet for 9 months out of the year.
@Matt_B - apologies, but I seemed to have missed what you are suggesting. In the context of this discussion, are you for or against riding Red Hill in the wet?
***This is a honest question and I'm not trying to take a swipe.
I don't ride when it is wet because i would destroy my bike and I am too lazy to wash it too often.
Having said that, I would ride RH after a rain, if at all i rode when wet, becase it is allowed, and if I dont ride there the motos will anyway and the place will be a wasted land at the end without me having enjoyed it.
Just my 2 cents to the fire. I enjoy reading this debate
!! keed adding to it!!! 
@AR_junkie - I am stirring the pot but quite serious regarding Red Hill as it was once my favourite place to ride (the great big Red Hill - Oxford Falls s/t - Deep Creek was a super ride)- the place is an eroded mess. Of course it is stupid to ride trails when wet and destroy them but its a bit of a moot point with Red Hill and we would be better fighting to fix it up rather than squabbling re riding it in the wet (and i maintain from April to November it is always wet)
And guiltily i have never done anything about it..............
Pants, I was not saying that you said that comment, but you certainly inferred it.
I would explain the difference between parenthese and inverted commas, but I feel it would be lost.
Yep, you're free to express your views, and you're free to act as you wish, just so long as you take responsibility for the impact both create.