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Northern Beaches Trail Planning for NOBMOB and MWMTB
Lets keep the ball rolling!
So where to from here...im happy to see mwmtb and nobmob taking the lead with this on a public level, so i guess with so many members on nobmob and mwmtb combined, they need to join forces unofficially and stay on the same page and not go of in different directions
This will make sure all decision making is done to the benefit of all disciplines of mountain biking.
Mike Baird said "show us where you want the trails, and i will push for the funding that is available"
My suggestion would be to first get funding for a warringah/manly sustainable trail audit of both existing and potential trails by World Trail or the like, working along with mwmtb and nobmob.
http://mtbssn.info is great and would be good if people took advantage of this site, when it comes to a professional audit, they can see if its possible to put a trail just where you want it. But on the other hand i cant see people posting up informal trails with the view to get them legalized on that site even if it was in their best interest to. Any suggestions in this regard?
Maybe at the time of the audit, people that know of informal trails that they want legalized and formalized into sustainable trails can submit them by mail or email, to mwmtb or nobmob to be included in the professional audit so they are not posted all over the internet, simply because trails should not be advertised on the internet as legal to ride until they are.
What will happen if trails are not included in the audit is they will most likely get shut down and rehabilitated, because they are not in the new trail plan.
This audit would also suggest which trails should be mountain bike only, which trails should be multi use and which land is suitable for which discipline. It should include all land council, npws, crown and so on.
The benefit of getting an audit is they explore all land and existing trails and offer suggestions on how to fix suitable current informal trails into legal sustainable trails and offer world class environmentally sound suggestions on where to build new purpose built sustainable trails for all to enjoy. http://www.world-trail.com/audits.html and http://www.world-trail.com/services_consult.html
At the end of the day we need a document that we can give to NPWS, Warringah/Manly councils and state Gov. This document needs to include what trails we want and where and how they are going to be sustainable.
Any other constructive idea's or suggestions to keep things moving?
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you will find there are more than just those two groups working on this and it may make sense to get those people involved - like Dave who spoke last night or Paul who also stood up...he said he and some of the others have been working on this for between 10 and 14 years.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but i think those 2 where from MWMTB, but i too hope there are more groups and associations that can join in to make this happen properly this time.
I liked your timely comment on the motorbikes in Garigal too.
They must have their invisible paint on when NPA are around
That's great.
I heard the same report of the red hill meeting whilst at tonights council 'support' gathering.
There are a lot of burnt out campaigners who have seen moments of council inspiration and then watched them fizzle away. I can understand their reluctance to want to go there again. Perhaps they were before their time. Maybe now is the time?
I hope that once the excitement of this partial success of the Manly Dam 'win' settles it might show that there is hope now, that our numbers are large enough, growing, vocal and sophisticated enough and in many ways (with a full time IMBA rep etc. now) better technically supported and informed. Maybe we now can have a Stromlo in our back yard too.
I for one feel heartened to have the Mayor recognise our presence in the gallery and hear councillors supporting us and our sport and feel, in a way, 'legitimate' after many years of feeling like a bastard son compared to other sports - having to be the one sneaking off and getting my riding pleasure on illicit trails.
May the next gen of MTB riders ride with pride and ride free !!
Any group putting a case together has my support.
I think we should acknowledge MWMTB and the hard work doneto date. It is our local MTB club we should be throwing our weight behind if we want to see results. Because a united front is needed we cannot continue to be fragmented.
The 'behind the scene' work already done by Paul Lidgard and others from our local club must be recognized as our best chance of a positive outcome.
Hey guys
Does anyone know how to access the report which was briefly flashed before us at the end of the Narrabeen meeting regarding proposals for a mountain bike facility at the waste management site. I think one of the councillors commented that it was released to the public that day and they were seeking comments from the public. I'm having difficulty finding any reference to it.
CB
CB..
I think this is it..
http://www.kmc.nsw.gov.au/www/html/3559-draft-op...
http://www.kmc.nsw.gov.au/resources/documents/at...
Agree 100% Nobmob and MWMTB needs to be a united front, with unbiased interdisciplinary trail advocacy as its No1 concern. Its not easy, but with so many of us to help out the workload will surely be minimal for each of us.
Do many of the trail advocacy guys from MWMTB post up on here much, if so, who, also what are their nobmob names?
If not maybe we need to invite them over to help with next steps and planning.
any changes made by council to 'improve' the dam should be revisited and removed, ala the 'steps' and other stuff so the trails can be brought back to its natural form as best as possible.
any funds for work should be allocated to folks in the know
These things tend to move rather slowly. Those who have had the 'pleasure' in attending the various meetings will know how long a seemingly simple decision (depends on which angle you are looking at it from) takes to be resolved, let alone forming action groups (with buy-in from the correct bodies) and implementing a solution.
Just ask some of the guys who have been campaigning for the last 10 years...
The cogs of change are turning, albeit rather slow for most, lets try to avoid 'burnout' due to frustration in the process.
Im guessing when our volunteer days get started at the dam, we will be able to build to IMBA standards, so that means steps and logs get the flick.
Agree, the wheels of change turn at continental speed, however I can't see any reason why someone couldn't take a Shaping File* to the corners and edges of those steps to round them off a bit
*Not sure if this is the correct tool name
so keen to help, why don't you contact the MWMTB yourself and offer them assitance? Why would you expect them to contact nobmob?
Hey Christine, not sure if your comment was directed in my direction. I don't expect anyone to contact anyone, let alone MWMTB and Nobmob to do this. I'm happy to put my hand up and help out.
the edges were rounded off long ago, think around the time the logs went from the start of De Luca's Run.
were directed at all the people ranting on about making changes to the trails and gaining more access.
Really? Wow it must've been ages since I last went around the Dam then - how embarrassment!
It's hardly noticeable. Took me a while - I just figured I'm too busy concentrating on not sliding out!
The proposal for WSM at Belrose is the existing waste depot not planned for closure until 2014 and MTB tracks is one idea once it's closed.
I believe the above is for St Ives showground. It would be great to see a technical section on here that could link up with the fire trails and single trail through to the back of St Ives.
It's called a b4st4rd file, seriously
Dont think anyone said that, just they and we(nobmob) need to be a united front as their are so many mountain bikers within each group of many different disciplines.
Hi all,
There are a few of the MWMTB guys who are members here. Myself, I lurk a fair bit but don't post that often.
After the meeting/workshop between riders and Nat Parks late last year key nobmob and MWMTB people have been keeping in close contact and are in essence a 'committee' behind the MTBSSN site set up by Robin. I agree both groups need to continue to work together and regular catch ups are planned.
No doubt everyone will be kept up to date with any developments
See you on the trails,
Dave
MWMTB
it's ok talking about MWMTB giving us support but what about us supporting them, all you guys do a few races a year and pay a fee for a day license.
these local clubs are run by volunteers who get nothing in return for the hours they put in to keep mtbing alive in the area. if you all joined your local club and paid the yearly fee for a race license then you wouldn't have to pay the 15 bucks every time you did an enduro and you'd also be supporting your local club.
try and do a few more local short course races, it's great training and great fun.
i know a nobmobber who used to spend a lot of time organising short course stuff but due to lack of interest it kind of fizzled out. MWMTB is dying too due to lack of interest. if you all put your money where your mouth is, over time it could come back to life. there seems to be a lot of mtb'ers in the northern beaches that like to have a whinge on here but aint really pro active in truly supporting the sport, whether it be, actively racing, protesting, or working on a white collar basis and hammering local councils for trail access! ( i'd like to help out more with the white collar stuff but if you look at my spelling and grammar you'll see why i prefer to join clubs and race!)
Enough of my ranting! all i'm trying to say is, the council see local "affiliated" clubs as a 'proper' way to go! imagine you, as a group of friends have been playing footy on a local park since you were kids? the council, one day say " no football on here, you were never meant to be here in the first place!" now as members of the general public you wouldn't have many rights but i'm thinking that if you were all members of a local affiliated club you'd have a lot more backing and half a leg to stand on in an argument against the council!
sorry for the rant, and sorry for any spelling mistakes! day off traing and had a few wines!
Nice rallying call Gazza.
I've just joined MWMTB. Not sure how involved I'd be but as a vote ( and spend ) for trail advocacy it's got to be the right thing to do.
CB
you know it makes sense!
The 'trouble' with current MTBA affiliated clubs is that they are race orientated and most people don't actually want to race, they just want to have fun out on their bike socially.
The recently formed IMBA Australia are looking to set up some non-race orientated clubs though. These will clearly have a great trail advocacy focus and anyone interesting in seeing their local trails stay open and in good condition (so that should be, in fact everyone!) should join one.
Thing is... there are none locally at the moment.
So.... anyone want to start a Sydney, or NSW, IMBA Australia affiliated club?
I think most people don’t understand how much fun club racing is especially if you just treat it as riding theirs no need to get too caught up in the whole racing aspect unless you want too that is.
Gazza is on the money more of you guys should join your local club and go ride / race with them.
And really how many social fun rides don’t involve a little one upmanship and racing of sorts.
As soon as there is an IMBA club up and running, I'll happily join that too !
( not volunteering though .... well probably not )
CB
Rob,
are there any such examples in Australia operating as yet?
racing or organised events help pay the trail bill, most people in Whistler don't race but they turn up for the loonie, now twoonie events which raises money and they are done in an hour tops........but they have more than one legit trail and a city is a bit different
What would peoples ideal IMBA club be like?
AFAIK there are no IMBA Austraila clubs up and running right now. Someone here wanna be the first?
seeing as though most people here think of you at the forefront of trail advocacy, why don't you be the first?
Haven't you heard?
http://nobmob.com/about
Seriously though... if anyone wants to start an IMBA affiliated club to handle membership and trail advocacy then that would be awesome.
Nobmob is NOT a club, but a place for MTB'ers to meet, talk and ride
Like a social networking site for those that rather ride than walk!
from what I can gather people from MWMTB such as David (AKA cuthbert on nobmob) and Paul Lidgard have invested years of their time into trail access in our local area.
Seeing as though they are the ONLY local club** we have for now, why wouldnt we support them in any way we can? They aren't purely race orientated... Dreggsy leads groups for rides as do others. But, with no local track to have race days and dwindling memberships how can we expect them to do a massive effort for the greater mountain biking community?
I guess I am trying to say is, if we support them, they will support us!
@dangersean its interesting
MWMTB have the club structure
NOBMOB (I am guessing) appears to have the community or the numbers of people interested but is clearly not a club
I guess (and yell at me Cuthbert if i am off beam) if people started joining MWMTB and getting involved the energy of that club increases....
Surely a new club wouldnt be created to be IMBA affiliated if that is a good thing, it would just create another body or head for people to disperse to
Judaean Peoples Front ?
Peoples Front of Judaea ?
Judaean Peoples Popular Front ?
I have no idea whether I will get 'involved' in any clubs, I'm not a great 'club' person but then again ... you never know.
Right now I'm just happy to support ( financially if required) anyone who is promoting mtb advocacy ! So step one appears to be to join up, be counted and give them a few dollars. After that, who knows ?
Just off to renew my BicycleNSW membership ( again, I join up and give them my money because they push cycling advocacy and the more members they have, the more influence they have)
I like that NobMob isn't a club but if it helped with our mtb advocacy position, I'd happily pay to be a member of this community too ( ... ok... maybe a bit controversial, but I'm sure you get my point )
CB
The issue with clubs is that they come with a significant administrative overhead. Insurance, incorporation by guarantee, officers, treasurer, annual general torture chambers, elections, petty politics, factions, yada yada. Been there done that with electric and then nitro R/C cars, and it can take over a major part of your life.
The reason it does that is that when you get elected to office, everybody runs in the opposite direction and you're the one left holding the shovel.
And the politics is absolutely fricken hilarious. Seems to attract all the small-minded jobsworths of the universe, and once they get into power they're off! - exercising their authority with all the callous officiousness they can muster, channelling Prostetnik Vogon Jeltz. So I'm over it.
But if cuthbert and lidgard are happy to shoulder that burden with occasional help from the rest of us, why not join? I'll just get out me cattle prod and apply it to the rest of lot you occasionally
and all should be sweet! 
Resistance is futile! Or maybe I should just threaten to read you some of my poetry! Arrgh! 
So a social riding chapter affiliated with IMBA would be a bloody good idea so long as we don't let the guys in the official hot seats get lumbered with all the work and no riding time... and some kind of insurance deal via IMBA would be a nice carrot to wave in front of prospective members.
In response to Matt's comments above, the more members a club has, the more energy it has, which leads to a more active social element where organised social rides etc become just as importanat as racing. A good analogy is CORC - by far the largest club in the country and look what they have been able to achieve in terms of facilities, events and general social structure.
It's certainly not mine or anyone else from MWMTB's place to start preaching to others to join up. However, I can say that if you do a few races a year and need a MTBA license or simply just want to get involved we would most certainly appreciate your support.