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Another 19th hole victim...:(

ADZA's picture

By ADZA - Posted on 22 September 2010

Well i rode Manly Dam this morning before work and whoa i was failing badly, started off with the seat post height wrong so strained a leg muscle, then hit a deep hole at the rocks after Eva's junction (managed to jump off and run forward here)... but my worst fail came when i tried the 19th hole (not exactly focused on it either) and managed a beautiful OTB and bit the dirt!! (thanks kindly to the two cyclists who were there to check if i was O.K, much appreciated)
well i suffered a few bruises and scrapes but the worst of the injuries is that i may have cracked some ribs down the right side Sticking out tongue, X-Ray's tomorrow to check, hopefully not but we will see...will post up the update

oh and this isn't keeping me off the bike... i will be back there on Saturday Smiling cracked ribs or not

any tips from the pro's on how to effectively pass this section? (without killing myself?)

Buck's picture

Sorry to hear about your stacks and hope you mend quickly.

For roll offs. Best to get your weight back as you go over the edge. If the roll off is big enough you may even need to get all the way back behind your saddle. And don't grab a handful of front brake.

Have a look at this gallery

Scottboy's picture

or cracked a rib my friend stock up on pain killers if you want on the bike this weekend it is gonna hurt try jumping up & down on Friday arvo while coughing if it hurts u won't be riding

danielschipper's picture

So just getting back into riding and getting my fitness and skills back. I'm currently taking the b line around 19th hole as I thought it was a drop? Can you roll off 19th hole? If yes does anyone ha e video or tips of how to approach this?

ADZA's picture

thx smiley, i have the forte Smiling so its the strong stuff, will see what the x-ray yields tomorrow.

but basically at the moment it hurts when i cough/laugh or take a deep breath Sticking out tongue so i'm hoping for only bruised but i think they are cracked Sticking out tongue

Rob's picture

What Buck said, plus...

... the main problem with the 'roll offs' around the Dam is that many of them have become hollowed out, either just in the dirt, or even worse: where dirt has been removed from in front of a root or rock. Such dips grab your wheel if the weight is positioned in such a way as to press the wheel into them.

On the left hand side of the bottom drop on the 19th hole, there's a root with a very effective catcher like this.

Keeping your weight back, as Buck says, means you don't have too much weight on the front wheel and it doesn't trap so easily. That said, if the dip is particularity effective you might still get trapped and sent OTB all the same.

To avoid the problem altogether one must huck off these drops that were previously easily rolled. Ie. lift your front wheel (by moving your weight back and lifting the bars) just before you go off the roll. This way, hopefully, the front wheel won't even go into the catching dip but will land past it.

As with most skills, practice makes perfect and do that practice at first some place safe (like hucking off small drops on a soft grassy surface or something).

hawkeye's picture

A mate made the same mistake on the middle roll-down and broke the scaphoid in his right wrist there last Saturday. 5 weeks in a cast. Sad

+1 to Buck's comments. Drop your seat a little and get your bum back behind it and low down over the back tyre if necessary:

I'm a very long way from a pro but I've learned the bitter lesson the hard way that if I start getting signals that I'm off my game it's better to pull the pin and come back another time. If I'm making little mistakes because I'm not processing what's coming at me fast enough, continuing will end in those little mistakes having bigger consequences that will stop the ride. Especially at Manly Dam - lots of gotchas if you're not paying attention to the trail and how you're riding.

Focus is vital - it can even bite you on a fire trail. Ask sinkes what I did the other weekend on Long trail! Sticking out tongue

I'd suggest riding somewhere a little more forgiving for a bit until you get your head back in the right space.

ADZA's picture

that was the b-line Daniel, its just so worn away at the bottom of the last roll-off it catches you if you aren't paying attention (which i wasn't)
I haven't got the balls to do the straight 6ft drop (at least not with a hard tail and not at my current weight and fitness level Sticking out tongue)

Scottboy's picture

there are a, b & c lines at the 19th & follow what buck & rob said guys I nearly got caught out too but corrected at the last split second

danielschipper's picture

So Im going all the way around to the right. Will take another look at the a & b line next time I'm out.

Hope you end up ok and out riding Adza

ADZA's picture

Thanks guys Smiling

yeh rob, thats the line i took, just the left line and got the front wheel jammed in that hollow (basically forgot to lift the wheel)
although i also had my front shock low on pressure and dropped 20mm (normally 150) and i have it at 130mm so the geometry changed.

the other difficulty for me in getting off the seat --> backwards is that because i am so tall, my seat post in normal riding position actually sits 4 inches above the handlebars... (the new XXL stumpy 29er will be pretty close to level i'm sure so it might help, plus getting the command post)

i will upload a photo of it next to me now

As you can see the thing is huge (im 6'7) and the seat is miles above the handlebars

hawkeye's picture

Looking at where it comes up to you on your torso, it seems there's still a bit of scope to drop it a little? Are your feet still in control of your pedals at the bottom of the stroke?

Hmm. I'll have to go see now where my seat comes up to on me. Smiling

ADZA's picture

hey hawkeye,

sure are mate, infact i can actually climb like this more effectively than in any other seat position, example i climbed the step up section way more effectively this morning than ever before + overall seemed to have more constant peddling power with less fatigue.

i still have a slight bend in the knee at that height too Sticking out tongue figure that one out
although that could be related to crank length (i know morgan who is my height has longer than normal cranks) and i am running standard 175mm

Hop fiend's picture

because if you have cracked or even bruised ribs the jolt of pain is MAD!!!

Pants's picture

I always drop my seat before doing the 19th hole section, although i go to the left of the hole and do the big roll off/drop A line. I actually find it harder to go around the right to the b/c lines

psd's picture

Obviously the technique stuff is the critical part but it must be hard to put those techniques into action with the seat that high. That looks like my road bike!

If you need the seat that high just to get around I would definitely recommend a 'dropper' seat post. The best dollars I have ever spent on my bike. Flick the switch on the handlebars and it drops 3 inches (or more depending what you get) and you can easily get back and low, but still pedal, so much safer and means you don't compromise pedalling efficiency. Saving yourself a few offs is definitely worth the cash, lots more confidence and makes riding lots more fun.

There are lots of options but here's what I (and a few of my mates) use.

I suppose you could also get riser bars, higher angled stem etc so your weight's further back?

Discodan's picture

You might be a candidate for one of them fan-dangled remote adjustable seatposts that can drop for the technical sections but keep the height for climbing. I know at 6'2" sometimes it's a balance between control and power, for nasty sections I'll find the seat against my sternum because it's up quite high

Flynny's picture
i still have a slight bend in the knee at that height too

Remember though when you are just sitting there on the bike most people naturally tend to raise the heal which makes the leg bend more, however as you pedal most people drop the heal as it get more power that way.

Basically at the bottom of the pedal stroke you want about 60* bend in you leg with your heal dropped in the usual pedalling position.

As for falling off... sounds like you were having an off day topped up with

it catches you if you aren't paying attention (which i wasn't)

2 points
A) you should always be paying attention
2) if you are having an off day on the bike don't try the hard section
iii) keep your weight back but stay loose, you don't want to be so far back that your arms are locked straight (well sometimes you do but only momentarily).

LadyToast's picture

I think someone needs to take an aerial photo of the 19th hole and mark what the lines are because I think there is some confusion (in my head at least) as to what all of these line are.

I'm pretty sure there are 4 lines A, B, C and D.

A - Ride straight off the top and land about 6' below narrowly missing the bushes and death.
B - Hard left and down the steep rock face, narrowly missing death. Doable but hard IMO.
C - Hard right then left down a rock face and down to the drop off. My usual line.
D - Hard right, then all the way to the end and around the rock and down to the drop off.

In this leached youtube video blue rides the D line (at 0:07 blue rides past the entry to C line and at 0:25 the B line is up there on the right)

I have ridden B, C, and D. No way I have the ability nor life insurance to ride the A line but there are videos of people doing it.

Rob's picture
I think someone needs to take an aerial photo of the 19th hole and mark what the lines are...

You mean like this? Eye-wink

19th hole Lines

G-Stroke's picture

Now that's a fast response - nice work Rob.

Re: ADZA's ribs, the recent NZ ski holiday that saw my shoulder break, 1 broken, 2 cracked ribs and bone bruising on front of ribs taught me restraint. I'd be seeing if you could comfortably cough, sneeze and laugh before heading back out, regardless of how hard you are. I'd broken and cracked the ribs at the back of the rib cage from a frontal impact (don't show care or pity - I don't want my stupidity rewarded..) and with codeine and panadol around the clock, I couldn't do anything without wincing like a little school girl. I wouldn't say I'm soft, having walked off the slope carrying my gear because ski patrol never showed up, but I wouldn't have been active afterwards either.

Take care, and remember it's not the speed that hurts, it's the impact......

Scottboy's picture

I never knew of the D line b4 too far around I like the C line

craked's picture

@ADZA I curently have a cracked rib at the back of my rib cage, just getting into bed is full of pain sitting on the dunny is enough to make you want to give up eating, sneezing is like..... sorry cant find a word for that one.Iused to road race motor cycles and have been O.T.B at 180 kph,Ive had a healthy relationship with rib injuries ,the drugs you will need to mask the pain would seriously affect your skills and probably lead to more pain and injury.

VTSS350's picture

Weight distrubiton and speed is the key.

Your weight needs to be back while pushing the front wheel out in front of you.

Also the faster you do it the easier it is. If you going slowly the front wheel will drop into holes.
Speed up and the front wheel will glide over the top of them.

Practise practise practise.

Ride the same section 5 or 10 times in a row. It really helps!

Discodan's picture

Thanks for mapping the lines guys. As a newby I've just been using the D line by default without knowing the alternatives, I'll have a look at C this weekend. A and B might wait till next month Smiling

To date I've never had an issue at the 19th, just take it slow and steady, but more times than not there's someone crashed there when you come around

CharlieB's picture

You are a harder rider than me if you will be out on Saturday with broken ribs. When I did mine, coughing resulted in me being able to feel the ends of the break move against each other. The one thing the doc told me to be careful of was, that a hit in the same place again whilst still broken had a real chance of puncturing a lung as the end was already free to be pushed in (not requiring breaking first). Hope that’s not the case for you.

hawkeye's picture

Laughing out loud D-line for me every time. Sticking out tongue

Will have a crack at the C-line but I'm leaving A and B alone!

ja_har's picture

19th Hole A line from a couple of years ago, it would now be harder with more vegetation and erosion.

ADZA's picture

well the results of the xray are good Smiling no broken ribs Smiling YAY
although i have still got a bit of pain in the right rib section when coughing, but it seems to be bearable Smiling
it was just a really awkward fall, i actually think it was the bottom of the D line that i came unstuck (no focus and not leaning back far enough)
no way in hell i could do A line... i would for sure kill myself!

Scottboy's picture

you have to do now then get back on that horse when you can , drop your seat a bit b4 you get to the techy sections around the dam put it back up on the fire trails & anywhere it is not technical & take the 19th hole a little bit quicker lifting the front wheel a bit when you get to that drop off try too keep the momentum going . If you come unstuck go back up the hill a bit & give it another go , they is what most of us do any how

Herding Cats's picture

Nice there's no complications.

I went OTB at the same point in January, breaking my wrist and knee cap (cleanly in half). Managed to ride out (v. delicately), then paid the price with two rounds of surgery and four months in casts various.

I'm back in the saddle: my first event for the year is the Scott24 - can't wait, although I will only do a couple of slow laps.

No moral to the story, it happens. Chalk it up as experience ...

Matt P's picture

Any chance you get, there goes that vid!!

Rob's picture

This is the 'B' line, right?

And the 'A' line from below... although this rider is cheating as he's on a DH rig Eye-wink

Gee... it all looks soooo easy, eh? Eye-wink

GAZZA's picture

you know i'd have done it on my Rize if it wasn't for my dodgy arm!

PIVOT MACH 5's picture

Isn't that how you got the elbow in the first place? Smiling

ADZA's picture

well maybe with the new stumpy i can try the harder lines... or maybe i'm just a big chicken Sticking out tongue

Pants's picture

It is sounding like we need a NobMob ride day at the 19th hole...

Scottboy's picture

camera man as I won't be riding

ADZA's picture

you have the job Smiley,

so who is organizing the Ambo's and a stretcher?? i'm gonna need it Sticking out tongue

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