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Correcting misconception and false truth
Inspired by this post at BMORC http://bmorc.com/node/21232
I thought I'd reproduce a few points and add a couple more here
* It is not illegal to ride on a track located on council land unless sign posted otherwise by council.
* It is not illegal to cycle on a trail within crown land unless specifiically banned in the areas PoM and sign posted otherwise by the land manager.
* CTMBC supports the need for a PoM for Hassens Walls reserve. We made written submissions supporting the original draft that was put out in the early 2000s and have approached council since suggesting plans to formalise and manage the trails within the reserve.
* The current trail which descends the gully behind Thales rifle range (Gun Club Trail) is an approved, purpose built Mountain Bike trail and has been since the mid 90s. From what I understand it made use of parts of an old stock route that the club helped regenerate into single trail. It is not and never has been designed, built or approved as a walking tail. That said for the last 20 years CTMBC and riders in general have been more than happy to share it with walkers and other users.
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Playing devils advocate...
... sounds like a license to:
A) Rip up any signs, thus making any track legal.
B) Build stuff anywhere you like as it clearly won't be sign posted. When signposts do appear, see A)
I actually thought that all council and crown land was meant to have a Plan of Management document but guess that isn't the case? Or is it just not the case for the council area you are talking about Flynny, and every council will have it's own rules on this?
Rob this area hasn't got a PoM.
Yes I do believe it is a requirement that land such as this does have one, and it certainly needs it but I'm happy to work with council with what they have in place at the moment and they are happy to work with us.
The original draft PoM cost a fortune and fell over for various reasons and has not been attempted again as yet. If a PoM comes along in the future I'm sure we will support it. But if revisiting a draft PoM for this site means taking money away from current cycleway projects, footpath and kid park upgrades or other such work I'm happy to carry on without a PoM.
As for
a) It's illegal to deface council signs and removing a sign does not make the trail legal any more than removing a 50kmh sing makes it legal to drive 100kmg through town.
b)While there is nothing illegal about cycling on council and crown land unless stated otherwise it is most definitely illegal to undertake unauthorized construction and earth moving works.
c)The trail I am talking about is a DA approved, purpose built mountain bike trail.
You do note I said I was playing devils advocate?
These are only the sort of questions people who don't want to see riders there are going to ask, and we should all be prepared with proper answers.
For example, if there is no plan for an area of council land, and "... it is most definitely illegal to undertake unauthorized construction and earth moving works." then how do any trails get there legally in the first place?
Moved to On that note what about Cascades?
In this case refer to c:
In most cases, the same way as the walking trails they use...
Im sure if you look at the origin of just about every walking or riding trail that has become formal,it started out as a trail put in informaly by a walker or a rider wanting to enjoy the bush from point A to point B.
Im not saying its legal or the right thing to do, but the fact is that as walkers or riders we wouldnt have trails to formalize if it wasnt for the guys 10,20 or 50 years ago taking that first walk or ride from point Point A to point B.
Imagine trying to convince the powers at be to put in a designated mountain bike track in the middle of Manly Dam back in the day without a user group or the internet.
Its also very easy to show a land manager the need for a trail that is being used every week by 100's if people,think oxy dh or warrimoo dh
Today, with the need for POMs and Sustainable trails, the old approach doesnt really cut it especially in bush close to large populations.
Its a catch 22,without the informal trails back in the day, we probably wouldnt have the user group to prove the need for formal trails today.
We now have the user group to show the need for sustainable xc,dh mountain bike trails in most large population zones of oz, however in some parts of OZ sustainable informal walking/riding trails need to be utilized in order to enjoy the bush.