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On that note what about Cascades?
Moved from Correcting misconception and false truth
Having a prowl around on Sunday in the wet I 'discovered' the singletrack and (looks like) the downhill run that is now in disuse more or less alongside the fire trail down into the gully at the start. As far as I can see there are no signs forbidding access. It is a stunning network of track with berms etc all built but clearly has not been used for a long time.
Is this track legal or not?
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I assume you are talking about the trail to the East of the 'hill'? If you define the 'hill' as the area of land between Heath Track and what is listed elsewhere on this site as 'Technical Downhill' and comes out at a power pylon lower down Heath Track.
Both these trails are pretty much on council land - although as you note the network is extensive perhaps it has stepped over to NPWS land, I wouldn't know. BTW, Heath Track more or less marks the boundary with NPWS land in this area. Anyhow, whereas the 'technical downhill' was/is marked on a topo map, the one on the East side of the hill is not. As you note, there are numerous trails that have appeared in the area to the East which makes them unofficial.
If you use the argument from the original thread this post was moved from then one should assume the trail you refer to has been illegally constructed. But here's the kicker... is it actually illegal to ride a trail on council land once it's there, if there is not a 'No riding' sign? On NPWS the answer is absolutely, but for council/crown land I'm not so sure.
The only way you can really be sure is to call up the council (Warringah I think) and ask them what their policy is. I suspect you won't get a straight answer
Starting from Wyatt Ave end, past the power pylon and yes alongside of Heaths Track (I think - marked it on the Garmin so I will check).
It is far and away the best riding I have seen in there and would take very little work to restore to full working order. Seems to be quite a network in there which I will map over the next few weeks.
Hey Kiwiboy I would be very interested to see your map. In particular the tech DH bits. I am moving to Belorse and would love to ride something close.
I think he's referring to the stuff that once started on the northern side of the Acron Oval access / Upper Cambourne Track area and used to cut across the fire trail into Cascades at some point. NPWS have done some work in the last little while blocking some bits of it off from the fire trail and it is generally getting overgrown / eroded from what can be seen from the fire trails.
The forbidden stuff over the other side is I think actually part of the old Heath Track, which was overgrown for many years, then unofficially cleared and used / abused by mtb's for a while until NPWS put up the shutters.
edit: plus there's that other bit, now that you mention it....
@Lach, nah, over by Wyatt/Ralston Ave, by the house and the small bit of sealed road.
Maybe someone (takers?) should approach Warringah council about this? They were looking at building netball courts in this area at one point but gave that up a long time back. Since they published their unstructured recreation policy and we had all the fuss at the dam they surely must see the good in having some official tracks in the area near Ralston Ave?
The area on the hill is not ideal, but if one built in the right way and used a few switchbacks you could probably get some nice XC track in there too. So long as you stay away from the NPWS boundary this could work.
Just needs someone to convince the council
You.
@Sinkes... Well, this would start with a bit of letter or email writing to the council, or picking up the phone and calling them, or even better, posting up an advocacy meeting at a local pub to get a group together to discuss it and having various people in that group do it.
How about this: you explain why no-one else here is capable of organising that and I'll do it, otherwise... whoever picks this up - good luck and thank you
If it is the track I'm thinking of it has been blocked at the exit (where it comes onto the Heath Track) with a no bikes sign by National Parks. Looking at the maps it's crown land so National Parks have no authority to do this.
I rode this track a couple of years ago and it was great. Would certainly take the pressure off Manly Dam!
I may just pick this up and give Council a call!
Be careful here. The track to the West is rightly blocked... If you want to turn left. The correct exit there is right turn and back to the Heath Track right next to a power pylon.
I assume we are talking about:
http://maps.google.com.au/maps?f=q&source=s_q&hl...
Have had a quick look at the Warringah Local Environment Plan and this area is classified as Locality C8, Belorse North, and is not Garigal National Park.
What's wrong with using the single track as an entry to the NPWS?
That is assuming the Council don't object to the trails being used in the first place?
This would make Cascades one of the top rising areas in the area; could create a similar loop to Manly dam but all on NPWS firetrails plus council single trail.
ANd if the council wanted to get really fancy they could re-grade the entry to the area (past the locked gate) and provide parking for all the MTB'ers! In that way there would be no complains from residents re taking their street parking.
Regarding the Technical Downhill track - which I have been referring to as the 'West track':
Have a look (at the link above) and you will see it's al outside the NP Boundary aside from where it turns sharp right at the bottom, then passes the power pylon to join up with Heath Track.
There is (probably very overgrown by now) track that heads West (left) by the bottom. As that is in the National Park riding on that track is not authorised.
FWIW, motos made a complete mess of this last time I looked (you can see this where it comes out on the Heath Track) so wouldn't bother anyhow.
All that said, the track to the East which this thread is about is all outside the National Park so all good. There is a lot of space on this hill to use and council really should look into it. I once worked out you could wind 7km or so of single track around here without really trying
Happy to do something about putting trail use on this land in front of Council so long as I'm not running solo. Where would we start? A letter or phone call to Vicki Blaskett perhaps?
to make sure the trails, especially the dh are sustainable before going to council, Warrimoo is still around because its sustainable and too well constructed.
Folks
I haven't uploaded the Garmin file yet - intend to map it out in more detailsover the weekend.
The trails I am talking about have an entry point just past the Heath Track sign from the Wyatt Ave end. There is also a branch that pops out about 50m down Heath Track on the left, with a couple of boulders at the mouth of it.
My brief exploration revealed a network of singletrack and what appears to be a down hill (I was on the Giant Anthem so not really up for the big air). Where I stopped was a smooth rocky drop showing clear signs of chain ring bashing.
The trails are in good nick but overgrown a little. Seems to me that a trail day would bring it up to speed. The bits I saw already had berms and well cut switchbacks.
More updates and some pics to follow.
I know eaxctly the track you mean mate. I was just as excited as you when I first found it too ( was about 2007) but it turned out to be a bit of a fizzer! Top section is great, fast singletrack with some great berms, couple of little rocky bits, but then it got to those massive gaps ( think the big ones at Oxford Falls downhill) and the track kind of ended there.
It did progress further and me and a mate followed it as far as we could one day, but just became rocky and ended up in a creek, with us having to bush bash our way out onto the Heath track.
Potential for sure, but would need a fair bit of work.
When I replied "You". I mean't this in a nice way!
Without doubt you are the most knowledgeable person when it comes to dealing with council. You seemed to have a very good success rate on mtb matters. Your letters and submissions are always well directed, well said, polite and followed up in the correct manner.
I believe in putting the best foot forward, hence my reply..........I maybe speaking out of school here, but (Rob) you seem to tick all the boxes and cross the tees.
With your lead, we as riders can follow up and submit what would be fair and reasonable responses to the council.
Hey the cascades is a great place to ride and with this possible new addition.........hmmm may rival other mtb facilities.
My 2c
Thanks Sinkes, I appreciate your comments. But sadly there are only so many hours in a day. The current group of trail advocates who do the vast majority of the work are getting very burnt out (me included) and need some new blood to come in a share the load/pain/grief/abuse/etc.
So are you in? Am I selling it?
If you want a good starting point, what hawkeye said above sounds about right.