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Best weight dropping options
Arvo all.
Please excuse my choice of subject and appolgise if its been covered a million times before. You have the choice to ignore it if it annoys you ")
After riding the south loop with Tony and Jimmy yesterday, (cheers fellas) and feeling the weight, or lack of in the bikes. I am looking at some options to drop the weight of my Anthem X2. I know and fully understand that their bikes are a callibre well above mine and cant expect to get close to their weights, but I would like to hear from people who have had some success from dropping weight from a dually.
I love my bike, and it suits me fantastically and my budget doesnt extend to buying a new bike, but it does extend to making the best of my current situation. for people who know me, they will know that I weigh as much as a small monkey, so dropping my own weight just isnt an option.
currently running all standard gear except Eastern Havoc Wheels.
Thinking forks, pedals and running gear?
cheers in advance
pete
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What does your bike currently weigh?
Other than wheels, I don't think dropping a few hundred grams here and thrre makes all that much difference (if any) to the average rider. I think you need to be careful about what your trying to acheive and what outcomes you want or you'll end up spending a lot of money for no real gain.
Think I'd start by weighing all the bits you have and making an inventory - that way you know where the savings can be made.
Then, scour the online ads, ebay, local stores, etc. for parts specials.
I would imagine you could do well replacing the post for a Thompson Masterpiece and the bars for some carbon jobbies. I ran Easton Monkeylite XC for ages which are very light.
Real weight weenies run egg beater pedals (I found the SL a decent price - the Ti ones get silly) - much lighter than Shimano.
Think the rule of thumb, if there is such a thing, is that if you're lucky you'll probably have to spend $1 for every 1 gram in weight saving you make. It's a nice game so go for it
In all seriousness, unless you are skinny, the best weight reduction is yourself. Wheels and tyres would then be up there as the next best place to lose weight.
Ride naked?
Lots of 200g savings add up quickly to a KG!
The best cheap things we have found to look at are: seat, handlebars, seatpost, stem, disk rotors (you would be surprised in the weight differences) and tyres.
More expensive things: wheelsets.
With the handlebars, we have been using scandium bars, and they weigh almost nothing, and are very strong.
some stats..
Bike- just shy of 12kgs..closer to 11.5
Me - 66kgs (approx 8-10%fat)
sounds like you need to get fitter rather than dropping a few grams off your bike.
sorry left out...
14.1 on beep test last time i ran it.
I know where my strengths and weaknesses are. I know my fitness still needs improving, especially in climbing endurance. My cornering is still a work in progress, and my obstacle avoidance skills are coming along. I am just in the process of putting some final polish to my steed so it can be the best it can be, so that i cant use the age old excuse of....I would be faster if i had.....x45/wingding carbon jobbie!
Just 1 or 2 handy tips people have found in the past to be effective is perfect.
cheers for all your input and help peoples.
pete
Isnt an accurate way of measuring fitness, try and get hold of a powermetre and train with that, concentrating on increasing your FTP.
12kg's isnt that heavy for a bike, buy a roadie to train on, you will notice a massive difference then.
There's a very easy 500g in the items listed there, shop smart and you can get it all for a few hundred bucks
awesome, cheers all.
pete
Replace your existing alloy parts with Carbon and your Carbon parts with Unobtanium™
Or do what everyone else has suggested
PS I'm only 62kg so I feel your pain Pete
a good way to see how much difference weight makes is put 2 litres of water in your camelbak, time yourself riding up a climb you do. Then try it with only 1 litre. Pretty sure there will be little to no difference. Save your $$$ & invest in time in the saddle out in the trails.
Weight weenieness is all mental unless your an elite rider
Also, don't just focus on fitness. Look at your strength.
Strength increases don't have to mean an increase in weight (muscle) either. Waking up your neurological system can be of great benefit.
One very simple drill is:
Find a step or platform, about 15-20cms high.
Place hands on hips (no swinging arms for momentum)
Jump onto box.
Easy right?
Now repeat x 10 but now using ONE leg only.
1-2 sets, 2-3 times per week is a simple but effective way to increase leg and hip power without necessarily gaining muscle.
This will also be a good test for abdominal bracing (a fundamental part of pedalling).
Depending on your current set up, you could also try moving your cleat to the very back most position on your shoes to try increasing your mechanical advantage.
The cheaper (free) options are always the best place to start!
Chainset - lots to be saved there for not much cash.
Pedals - easy 200grms.
Cassette - again, massive savings in weight.
Saddle, bars, seatpost - cheap (ish) and easy to drop weight.
Tyres are key, and frankly (much to everyones surprise) there is a greater weight difference in a tyre than there is between rims.
People always talk about rotating weight, so fuss over the weight of their wheelset. Its not the whole answer. The real answer is really in weight of the rims and tyres. Hubs are not so important, but comprise nearly 40% of a wheels weight.
A super light rim might be 350grm. A heavy weight 'All Mountain' rim 500gm. Thats a difference of 150grm.
Now - think about tyres. Its incredibly easy to drop 150grm between tyres. For a 26" bike, look at running no more than a 500grm tyre. If you tear it, then learn to ride smoother. Loads of people run light rims, then burden them with 650grm tyres (i.e. UST tyres) for no reason other than not realising.
Oh - and it goes without saying to run the tyres tubeless. An easy 300grms (as long as you dont go crazy replacing the weight of the tube with Stans fluid).
11.5-12 is good. To reduce it significantly costs $$$ which could be better saved to wait till your next bike purchase and go the X1 or X0 or whatever they call it now/then. Light wheels help you accelerate, more so on tight nimble tricky trails, where you might be slowing right down and accelerating often. Once your belting along a fire trail and have your momentum up the weight of your bike matters far less. I added an adjustable seatpot which has made a great difference to how easily I keep up with my riding buddies. It's hard to beat more time in the sadle, just cause your light does not mean you're all that fit.
If you really want a light bike then the only real answer is to buy a Cannondale
SNIP> If you really want a light bike then the only real answer is to buy a Cannondale
or a unicycle.
Biggest weight loss I have seen is wheels 500+ grams and shoes - yup my old Shimano shoes were 1.6kg 800 gms each now they are 700grams in total.
and so is Wiggle
BUT as per many posts above bike bit weight is only part of it - my old bike was 13.8 kg my current Giant X2 is 11.4kg - hasn't made a bit of difference to my hot lap times....sigh
I am richer for the experience!
I don't know how I missed the line,
Wheelset is still one of the biggest areas to lose weight and a benefit in acceleration on spinning the wheels up to speed. Biggest problem will be the cost.
a cheapish wheelset weighing in at approx 1400g would be dt swiss 240s hubs laced to stans crest rims with 32 revolution spokes.
as ants said, get tyres at about 500g.
Hey Pete,
A bit of a plug but I have a wheel set that you can instantly loose 500+g
http://perthmtb.asn.au/node/29979
Regards
Decy
Through $h!tl0ad$ of running and buying a carbon stead, I have dropped around 14 kg from rider and bike weight and haven't noticed much of a difference yet. Speaking of $h!tl0ad$, try wrestling with a Brown Snake before you ride - I can shave off 500-900kg if I put my mind to it.
I think you need to post that inventory on here. Otherwise we are endlessly playing hypotheticals.
What gear are you running?: Forks, pedals, bars, tyres, rims, crank/crankset, chain, brake levers, brake calipers, seat, seat post, handlebar grips, front derailleur, rear derailleur, etc.
Pete,
Let me first tell you that weight weenie-ism will take over your thoughts, make you obsessive about stupid little things, and break your bike budget every month.
Now you know that, lets get down to business.
I recently got my XTC29 from 12.5kg down to 10.3. There is proably still a bit of room to go, but thats enough for me, and besides I have another bike thats a little on the porky side.
The best value was tires. I replaced 2 800g maxxis LUST tyres with some non UST Schwalbes at 360g a pop. Total cost $110. I have to say though that they are a little fragile, and dont offer a lot of grip, but for what I want them for, they are the business, and they were better on the weekend than I thought they'd be. There are pretty good Continentals (Race King rear, Mountain King front for Perth) at about 420g each end.
I also went for a new wheelset. Tubeless of course. Stans rims on high end hubs. They weigh 1700g for the pair which saved 500g over the standard Giant wheels. Not only weight, but a huge improvement to the ride quality too. (approx $1k)
The heavy ass Deore spec 12-36T cassette that came with the bike weighed nearly 500g. A 12-34T Sram 990 is about half of that. They were about $80 on wiggle last time I checked. HArdcore weigh weeines run a 12-27T Ultegra cassette at about 170 odd grams.
I was able to pick up an XTR Crankset second hand, saved 350g over the Deore. $250
Carbon Bar, lighter stem saved 150g. Second hand for about $150. I bought a Ritchey WCS alloy seatpost by accident, thinking it was carbon, but I like it so it stays. Cutting your bars to the right length will drop a few grams.
Ritchey Foam grips weigh 30g a pair, cost FA, and are mega comfy. Your lock ons are about 110g.
Theres a place to start anyway.
G
Tempest how many cups of sealant are in those bald weightless tyres? I heard you say 3 scoops I think.
I'm also happy to see that you spend more on Wiggle for a cassette than it cost at the LBS, always brings a smile to my face.
Pete my two cents - think about comfort as well as weight. A good tyre that corners well or is fast rolling is great even if it is 50g heavier than one that isn't UST and doesn't seal properly.
Carbon bars are a must for comfort and they will save some weight. You could get some 580mm bars like mine and no doubt save weight and you probably won't be able to control the bike. Having said that I will be replacing my 580 bars.
The Ritchey grips are a must like Tempest said.
Otherwise just look at wheels and save the rest of your money for the next holiday or a bike with bigger wheels!
John
About half a scoop in each one, which turned out to be not quite enough. I think they are a little too light, but ran Conti supersonics all year last year with no problems.
My Bars are 560mm and they are fine. I know a euro guy who runs 480, but thats just crazy.
The thing about the extra weight of the maxxis was that it came with the benefit of reliability and grip, which is faster. There is a place for both in my shed.
And John, that same cassette today is $110, so the next time I need one, I'll shoot you a bell. Thanks for the tip.
.
Also Pete, thers not much weight difference in chains, but there is a huge quality difference for not a lot of price difference. That alone is worth doing it for.
cheers for all your comments. much food for thought, and cheers temp (greg) for your experiences...which is exactly what i was chasing..and made for a great forum post.
pete
There is part of me that suspects it's a bit of a fools quest to put a bike like this on a expensive diet. Yes some cheap easy swaps maybe but with the abundance of Anthems out there you could pick up a high end model with the weight saving built in. If that is the case and your desire is to go fast (rather than bragging rights) then bigger wheels should be a consideration. I think Wembley has some demos??
Also this bike has been designed as a light weight XC bike, so it's not like other weight weenie projects like shedding kilos of a 6" Trail bike. It's already light all the easy grams have gone. I'm still not sure about non UST tubeless (conducting my own experiments) but if it works there is some real weight savings there.
If you feel absolutely compelled to spend money then spend it on a wheelset. If you get some crazy bling wheels you should be able to take it with you to the next bike.
I'd do the calculations before spending a dime. New 29er vs 2nd Hand Anthem top end model vs putting lipstick on your existing pig.
"I'd do the calculations before spending a dime. New 29er vs 2nd Hand Anthem top end model vs putting lipstick on your existing pig."
Responding to a guy who originally said he loves his bike, i thought your line was a bit harsh!
What do you ride? I trust its an 8kg HT or a 9.5kg FS.
Theres a reason theres an abundance of them, and its not because people like to ride pigs.
I'm sure it was just a figure of speech and wasn't meant to insult the poor lad.
FWIW I love my hairy Yeti pig particularly when it's covered in $hit!
Yes well done phil for getting the term, no offence meant. I thought the term had passed into popular vernacular when Obama used it in the US elections to point out that the Republicans policy was dressed up but essentially the same. The Republicans tried to make it sound like Obama was calling Palin a pig (which she isn't, she's a bogan). Chuck the term into google you'll get results like this.
http://www.politico.com/blogs/bensmith/0908/Obam...
Another term that springs to mind is "like putting Pirrellis on the Combi"
So you pimp your X2 and what do you end up with? An X1 or X0 with lots of left over parts? Would it have not been cheaper and quicker to by the X1/X0 first? I'm just saying do the sums first and have a goal in mind. Me? I just like my piggies for who they are and when I wear stuff out from reckless behaviour I chuck on good gear and try and wear that gear out.
(oh and Tate, don't trust an 8kg HT)
along with all the other suggestions, foam/silicone grips would save a fair bit of weight compared to lock on's
question, whats the pros and cons of flats of riser bars.. never used flats before.
cheers
pete
I had 580mm ritchey flat bars, and now have 620mm slight risers and theyre chalk and cheese.
i prefer the slightly wider bars with a slightly rise. i feel ive got more control and comfort. ill try wider flat bars again one day, but i found 580mm just too narrow.
http://nobmob.com/node/30837
this is only my opinion but,going faster isn't just about dropping weight from ya bike is it?you already stated that you don't carry much weight yourself so no need to lose weight off ya body.i don't doubt your fittness either, but bike set up and skill count for a lot to, more than the components on ya bike.there is too much emphasis on skinny bars and skinny tyres in mtb, none of which provide grip or control, perhaps these are the areas you need to look at.are your riding buddies quicker due to their bike set ups?there is more to mtb than straight line speed and hill climb ability, its going quick in between these points that counts,keep it compfy, grippy and in control, thats my two bits
Eggbeater 1's are on special at T7 for 48 hours. For 50 bucks you can't go wrong:
http://www.torpedo7.com.au/products/CRPDMN0E1/ti...
The bling Ti ones are 9 times the price(!), but only 82g lighter:
http://www.torpedo7.com.au/products/CRPDMN1E1/ti...
Or are new cleats required?
Are they any harder to get into or out of (or is it just a adjustment period?)
New cleats are required and come with the pedals. For me I found they were slightly harder to get into to begin with but felt better once in. They look better and a lighter as well. I wouldn't go back to shimano now I've made the switch.
They're bulletproof!
I've spent too long in Shimano, gave the Candys Crank Bros a crack for 3 months and couldn't get used to the vague feeling you have. I struggle to know if I was in or out. With my Shimano SPD with the spring tension adjusted to my preference (you can't do that with Crank Bros) I get a solid resistance then a 'pop' out. Crank Bros are better for mud clearance (not an issue here) but more prone to rock damage (an issue here). If you get used to Crank Bros and they work for you, that's great but this old dog struggles with that new trick. (although I would like to try Times)
If you're contemplating Titanium Pedals then you should be looking at shoe weight as well. I've riden with roadie pedal and shoes offroad in a race. Awesome light but a bit awkward (hence maybe slower)
Candys are totally different to egg beaters. As candys have the platform it makes them hard to use. My bike came with candys and i hated them for that reason, egg beaters are much better.
phil,
ive seen EB break in a team race on two separate occasions. on both occasions, the rider had to press on the pedal until he finished the lap.
ive never seen a shimano break.
@tate
Do you know what happened? Did a 'wing' break or did the 'Wings' come off the spindle?
Mine have always been bullet proof. Can't vouch for anyone else. FWIW I do service mine regularly, new grease every couple of months and bearings every 6mths.
This isn't a "rule of thumb" - its simple physics.
A gram of weight on the rim has both translational and rotational energy, (1/2 x M x V^2) + (1/2 x I x (angular speed in Rad/s)^2), where I = M x r^2, M = mass (or Delta Mass) and R is the radius of the wheel. (I have it done in Mathcad should someone want a look)
and that energy comes from YOU.
So to get 1 gram on the rim from 0 to say 25 km/h - you have to add 0.024 Joules in energy - just to get it spinning - (ignoring berring and rolling resistance).
AND you have to add 0.024 joules of energy to get it translating at 25 km/h.
This is why rims and tyres are so important to weight wennies.
Me, I could lose 5 kgs with out touching my bike
Only 5? Lucky! I remember a mag shaving a riders head, think it was around 50gms.
I have to say I did laugh at the bulletproof comment on the Crankbros which seem to have a complete service every couple of months.
Here is the service schedule of my Shimano SPDs
1 Buy bike and put SPDs on bike.
2 Ignore and treat like shit for 5+ years.
3 Sell or bike stolen. Then go to step 1.
Perhaps not something to be copied but SPDs just work. If Crankbros work for you then that's great. They didn't work for me but that was more to do with the feedback from the pedals I was used to. Not the pedals fault.
reading all those math equations allmost made me quit riding
I havent touched my xtr pedals since I bought them over 2 years Ago and still working great!
Glad you got a laugh Scratchy, but it wasn't meant to be a joke. I don't service them because there is anything wrong with them. It's pretty simple if you think about it. If you don't service x regularly then expect x to fail at some point. Look after it and it will look after you. I strip down and service all my bikes regularly and that includes the pedals and in return they run solidly, bulletproof even.
Trailfix or no trailfix anything failing 100km's away from the car is no joke.