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Fox Shox - DIY or not?
Do you find it's worth servicing your Fox forks and rear shocks yourself, or do you leave it to your bike shop?
I've looked around websites I know from the UK and some I've found here, and it seems to me that Fox have made this as awkward and expensive as possible to promote non user servicing.
You can order genuine seal kits and DU bushings quite easily, but the major hurdle seems to be the suspension oil being sold in a reasonable quantity and for a decent price. £15 in the UK compared to about $45 here for more than you'd use in half a dozen or more changes. Then those 5cc Float Fluid packs NOT being included in the fork seal kit and being hard to find, or alternatively buy 250ml worth for 3-4 times the price that would keep you going for 25 changes! This seems to be so much the case it is suggested that even the bike shops are using substitutes instead, which is meant to be OK, but Fox green 10wt is supposedly better yet proprietary - i.e. the same oil is not available under a different name, like a motorbike fork oil for example, unlike Fox red 10wt.
I can service everything else on my bikes myself, but it seems like you might as well get your shop to do it for the minor difference in price, a heap less hassle potentially dealing with multiple online stores, and of course your shop's expertise.
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I recently took the plunge and serviced my Fox forks & shock.
You're right, after buying the seal kits, fluids, and a couple of tools, I didn't save as much as I'd expected, and it did take me a whole day!
But... it was still half the price quoted by the LBS, and should get cheaper (and quicker) each time as I now have the tools and fluids.
But main thing is I got an immense sense of satisfaction from tackling the most complex job on a bike, and the only thing I hadn't done myself before. And I learnt a lot about my forks, how they work, how to set them up etc. in the process.
I now also get bragging rights, and the ability to bore my riding buddies senseless with tips about which fork oil, the merits of open bath versus FIT, and which seals have the least stiction
My advice - do it!
PS: You can buy all the proper seal kits & fluids at about half the price online from Europe, and Fox have excellent step by step service guides on their web site.
which site in europe did you use?
I used 5 weight motorbike fork oil on my DT Swiss forks and it doesn't appear to be suffering any ill effects. You can get a litre for about $20. As an earlier poster said, it's tricky the first time but it gives you a better understanding of how the forks work.
yea I might have another go. on the front. I think I mucked it up first time around. Rear shock is a walk in the park.
I just bought all the gear to do my forks and rear shock including a litre of Fox Green oil from Pushys for $118. That was the rear air can seal kit, the oil and new generation low friction fork seal kit. I will also be machining up some of the volume spacer kits this week if anyone is interested.
A few sites indicate they won't ship oil outside their own country. Does anyone know if Australia considers such oils hazardous?
Also, how long do opened bottles last? With DOT brake fluid it's supposed to be fresh, whatever that means, so unless I use some more within a year, I buy a new bottle. I can't see that being very cost effective with Fox oils.
Given the shipping, suggestions for a one stop option would be great. I'd prefer genuine Fox in case it does make a difference. There's a suggestion that the new low friction seals require something different again.
The Fox green 10w has superseded the 7w and is what Fox recommend for all the stuff you can service yourself. The red is only required for the oil damper side of things which you won't be going near. I don't think this type of oil sucks water out of the air like brake fluid does, which is why it has to be fresh.
My LBS was happy to sell me small amounts of oil as I needed them. I just brought in some clean glass jars.
Thanks Dallas!
After buying the oil & seal kit, I only saved around $30. And it did take me a few hours too. Satisfaction? Yes. Time saver? No.
Tip - make sure you get your socket ground flat by a machinist. That is, the socket needed to undo the top of the forks has a very small amount of surface to grab. Most sockets have a slight rounded inside lip - which isn't helpful when the socket slips & you round off the edges.
Quote "which site in europe did you use?"
I bought aircan seal kit - http://www.bike-components.de/products/info/p200...
New shock bushing - http://www.bike-components.de/products/info/p323...
Fork dust wiper kit - http://www.bike-components.de/products/info/p311...
Fox green oil - http://www.bike-components.de/products/info/p265...
Fox red oil - http://www.bike-components.de/products/info/p323...
Fox float fluid - http://www.bike-components.de/products/info/p200...
Remember you can take the 19% german tax off the prices they show on the web site, shipping is an additional $25 (so worth buying a few other things to spread the cost
), and it took three weeks to arrive (yeah, that was the worst bit!)
I also had to buy a seal pick, 10mm & 26mm sockets, and a plastic faced hammer (very useful for getting the lowers off without damaginmg them!) from Repco/Bunnings as I didn't have these in my toolkit already.
Its worth while buying from that site. If you have the benefit of time. a lot of pricing there is excelent. However if all you need is the seal kits its not worth while unless you either do a group buy or buy yourself extras for future services.
You just need to do your maths. All I need is the seal kits. just not worth while. I can get them from my LBS for cheaper once postage is in the equation.
Yeah - wasn't suggesting its the 'go to' place, just answering the question I was asked of where I bought mine. The prices on Pushys suggested above are pretty close, and are in Oz and don't charge shipping for orders over $100. Buy wherever has a good price and gives you the service you desire...
of course not Andy.
I'm just at home sick.....too much time on my hands. Most sites dont sent Fox product to Australia. I thought it was a contractual thing. If you sell it on the internet. Not allowed to send it to X places because of existing contracts. Which would be illegal here in Australia but not nececaryly in other countries.
I was amazed to read you got them from Europe. I would be tempted just to get them from that site for spite. LOL. But now I'm not so sure of my original conspiracy theory.
Bummer! Best keep away from those online bike shops then. Whenever I'm stuck at home sick the temptation to cheer myself up a bit with some retail therapy usually gets the better of me, and the "bargains" start arriving in the post a week or two later - much to my wife's annoyance!
As for your conspiracy theory, it works to an extent. I tried to buy a specific part for the internals of my Fox fork from the official distributor in the UK, and they wouldn't ship it to me in Oz. However, the German sites don't seem to mind sending the standard items like oils and seal kits half way around the world - go figure! The Germans also seem to get round other brands bans on overseas shipping. Like Topeak and Mavic - was a time you couldn't buy these from CRC or Wiggle if you were in Oz, but the Germans had no such problem, don't know if its still the case?
To the OP:
I've pulled a rear Fox shock apart (to shim it), and was quite easy. Id probably do minor servicing on that myself from now.
As for the forks... Ive watched the videos and read the guides and it looks like a bit of a hassle. Being very time poor, id rather pay someone (assuming they are not stupidly expensive) to service it for me, and keep precious evenings and a one-day weekend for more important things. Like plotting my brake pad wear
Seal kit replacement for Fox rear shocks is easy. The kit includes a shock fluid sachet.
The only difficult bit is trying to understand how a USD6.00 item becomes a $25-35 item when bought thru local retailers
But the case for DIY has been strongly made, and the online guides make it so much easier than following the manuals.
Still I'd like to throw what I can afford their way. Is there anything extra they'd include in a service, like taking the damper apart?
I can't imagine the markup is due so much to the shops as to the distributors or the manufacturers. They should be giving the Australian shops a fighting chance amongst the enthusiast market, although I suppose outfits like CRC have long undercut even the UK shops, such that successful shops need to offer try it and buy it now convenience to compete.
You can't service the damper without specialist equipment, pretty sure no one in Perth does it, they all send it back to Fox. I was shocked to find out my LBS won't even do the basic service on a Fox rear shock, they send that away too.
http://www.moruyabicycles.com.au/
If anybody is looking, I was able to source everything Fox genuine from these guys. I put everything on my Christmas list so I'll try to remember to report back on how the servicing goes.
Pushys is cheaper and have the same fox parts. I have the volume spacer kits machined up now, $25 a set if anyone wants one.
What's the volume spacer kit used for?
Moruya also have Float Fluid by the bottle or pillow pack, whereas Pushys had the green oil, fork seals, and rear kit, and that's it. I'm just pointing this out for others, since my old fork takes 5cc of Float Fluid in the lowers - I know you don't need it anymore for the fork foam wipers according to Fox's own service guide.
Fair point on the float fluid, I didn't need it so didn't look for it.
The volume spacer is used to reduce the volume of the air can so you get more ramp up of stiffness near the end of the stroke. Some bikes are quite bad for blowing through the travel easily and you can tune this with the spacer.
http://www.pinkbike.com/news/tech-tuesday-How-to...
http://service.foxracingshox.com/consumers/Content/Service/QuickTech/FloatAirSpringSpacerProc.htm?SearchType=Stem&Highlight=||spacers|spacer|Spacer|Spacers|SPACER#mainproc
It is good fun to tinker around.
For the rear shock you can only really change the seals in the air sleeve at home. To change the oil in the damper unit you'll have to send it off.
For forks, the older open bath dampers are pretty easy to do. I haven't tried to pull a FIT cartridge apart yet. Anyone have any experience with that? As for oil I have used motorbike fork oil I purchased at MCAS in my lunchtime break
http://www.mcas.com.au/sydney-city-store
I finally did my fork last weekend. It needed a seal replacement since oil was oozing out of the air side seal during every ride. It no longer leaks and it still appears to be working properly. I don't think I found anything seriously wrong and I was pleased that I did it myself, but it did take me hours going very, very cautiously. I reckon next time should only take 30 minutes though.
The stanchion anodising did have some minor wear from the bushings, particularly near the disc brake, but it only seemed to be banded discolouration since I couldn't feel any gouging. I've read it works with worn/gouged anodising anyway, and that you can level the surface if you do experience problems with nail varnish.
I followed the Fox service guide and the Pinkbike video. The Fox guide has you removing the damper and spring units, and the top caps including the tuning controls. While I had read this wasn't necessary, the bottom thread of my air spring wouldn't budge with a rubber mallet on the socket, so I had to risk a tap from a hammer, and therefore I took it out to check for damage.
I also took the damper assembly out after emptying it, as well as the lowers, of oil because I wanted to make sure there wasn't any oil above it within the stanchion. Once it was out I could see that it really wasn't necessary, and that you can indeed add the oil from the bottom just as well as from the top. Emptying the damper would seem valuable though since a lot of dirty oil came out and leaving it in would presumably make it impossible to work out how much oil to put in. It is advised that the wrong oil volumes would affect performance.
I wasn't able to remove the ball bearing and spring from the damper top cap, but this didn't seem to make any difference so it's probably only required to perform the damper maintenance I skipped. That seemed to involve some very specialized tools.
Next up is the rear shock, but everyone seems to reckon this is pretty easy.
Still yet to do my fork, rear shock is easy. Is the damper chamber not separate to the lower chamber where the green oil goes? I thought it was and it takes red oil, which is why you might have thought it was dirty? Just thinking out loud from the vids I have seen and guides I have read, could be wrong.
Magnum, depends on which model of Fox damper you have.
If its the open bath one (O/B) then the same oil is shared between the damper and lowers, and it takes the Fox green.
If its a FIT or O/C cartridge, then they are separate, and the damper takes Fox red, and the lowers in that leg takes Fox green.
Your fork should have written on it what kind of damper is inside, and then you need to follow the relevant Fox service procedures, and oil volumes from their web site.
PS: I've only serviced an O/B so far, and will be doing my O/C next, but if you have a FIT cartridge its more complicated, and you may want to leave it alone and just service the lowers and air spring unless it really needs it, and then it might be worth sending the FIT cartridge to the proper service agent.
Can't see anything on the fork regarding the damper type. It is a 2010 Float 150 on a Reign 2, so it would be the cheaper spec, I am guessing OB. On the Fox site there are oil volumes for my shock with both types of dampers, so it was available with both.
Ah, Ok. Mine has a sticker on it which identifies it as an O/B, so I just assumed all Fox forks would have similar (incorrectly it turns out!)
Sorry, don't know if there's any other way of telling the difference between O/B and FIT from external appearance - anyone?
Thanks, figured out from Giant specs it is the RL which is open bath.
Are they the new low friction seals on your fork? If so, notice any difference?
Ok, O/B damper is pretty easy to service (must be if I could do it!), and you won't need any Fox red oil, as its green in both sides for the RL fork. Just make sure you cycle the damper once you've removed it to get all the old oil out before you refill with the recommended volume of new oil, or you'll overfill it! I learnt that the hard way
Yes, they're the new SKF low friction seals. Can't really make a before and after comparison though, because my forks suffered from the air spring problem common to this era of Fox forks, causing harsh performance. Now after the service the forks are like night & day, so plush I can't believe I was still riding them like they were, but I think most of that is due to the air spring fix rather than the new seals.
One thing I have noticed though - they do weep a little bit of oil compared to the old ones which were bone dry. Means I get more pronounced dirty rings on the stanchions. Maybe this is why they have less stiction - because they let a little bit of oil through!?! As long as its only one way I don't mind, but you can be sure I'll be examining the foam rings below the seals carefully at the next service to see if any dirt is getting in the other way.
Re emptying the damper in an open bath fork, I really don't think you need to remove it from the stanchion. Just hold a port open as the guide while you cycle the damper up and down. Since the damper can move from side to side within the stanchion I don't think there is really a top and bottom chamber, I think it's more like the damper sits in the oil in the lower and stanchion and lets the oil flow in and possibly out of the damper. That would seem to illustrate why it's called open bath. I may well be wrong though! I've done it once on an original Float RLC, and newer forks might be different.
Re the slight weeping. My understanding is that this is normal. Funnily enough I now only have it on the damper side stanchion, but it is very slight and perhaps indicative of the foam rings now using the runnier 10 wt oil instead of the Float Fluid.
OK, anyone know how to unscrew a 2004 Fox Triad rear shock? Just any old strap wrench and a vice?
Not even the manual I got with the bike actually describes this shock, and the Fox site only refers to it fleetingly.
It has an additional air sleeve which is kept in place with 2 split rings. After spinning it for ages thinking it was part of the air sleeve, I took the split rings off either end and pulled it off over the shock shaft.
So I'm left with just a black inner sleeve which I definitely can not turn by hand (even though it was last serviced by the Fox distributor, and Fox advise hand tight). I'm going to get a strap wrench and give that a go.
I'm surprised there's only about 1mm of eyelet assembly that meets the circumference of the air sleeve. Is that normal?
All's good, cheap plastic strap wrench for $6 from Bunnings got it undone, and from there it was plain sailing.
Does anybody know why Fox's diagram indicates grease being used whereas all the videos I've seen use Float Fluid? My shock had a lot of grease inside it when I took it apart, so that's how the Fox distributor has serviced it.
For anyone coming to this from a search, there's a few small differences with a Fox Float Triad RLC 2004 rear shock. It has an additional air sleeve with o-rings just inside each end. There's only 1 replacement in a seal kit, so I'll wait till next time to change them. It's held in place by 2 split rings which sit in slots at each end on the main can body. On the main can body there is a small hole through which the shock must use the additional air sleeve chamber.
Given the cosmetic damage to the big Fox sticker around this additional air sleeve, I would guess even Fox in Australia weren't familiar with this shock and tried to turn it to undo the shock. Since it just spins around the main air can if you don't remove it, it just slides off once you remove the split rings, my guess is that they used a strap wrench so tightly that it crushed the additional air sleeve down onto the main air can.
All the fox shocks built with a high volume air can are built like that, with the outer can that rotates.
Got this from Fox -
Is the rebound adjuster on the top or the bottom of the fork? If it is on the top of the fork it is an open bath damper. If the rebound is found on the underside of the right fork leg, that it is a FIT damper.
As has been mentioned a few times the basic service on a RP series shock is dead easy.
I've bought the kits out of the US from these guys ($15USD):
http://www.enduroforkseals.com/
With all OS purchasing the freight can be a killer but they also carry enduro bearings so I was able to pick up some other spares that I was chasing so overall worked out pretty good.
All the enduro gear is available locally from diymtb.com.au but general consensus is that they have far more stiction than Fox seals.
I've had great service from diymtb before but if I'm buying a bunch of stuff and there's no rush then RWC's prices win me over.
For those looking for oil this may be of interest - scroll down to the Bicycle Fluids section if you don't want to read the sections on weight.
Indicates that Fox Suspension Fluid (red)32 oz bottle 10wt is essentially Silkolene Pro RSF 10wt. (though unsure how up to date this is.)
FWIW.