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Recent MD trail maintenance issue?
My 11yo son and I did a short section of the MD trail this morning, from down behind the Lutheran Homes on down through the boardwalk, kids playground and Southern Sojourn - about a third of the circuit.
The descent from Lutheran homes was scary, with lots of loose rocks and sand on the trail that wasn't there when we last rode it a few weeks ago, and other parts of the trail seem to have had a lot of deeper sand and loose rocks etc graded into them, that wasn't there last week.
I don't want to complain, because the WSC and volunteer trail fairies do so much brilliant work that keeps the trail open for the rest of us. But I have to ask: what's the go with all the new sand and gravel? The deep sand especially is often hard to distinguish before you arrive in the middle of it, and when it's a surprise since you last rode the trail and you're leaned over on a turn, it's easy to go down.
Now that I know it's there, I'll adjust my lines of course. But I was wondering: do the WSC/volunteers realise what the deep sand does to trail safety, and could they not get some clay mixed in with it? That would surely improve its erosion resistance (sand alone has none) and provide a more solid surface for riders. Or are there better/more cost effective solutions?
Like I said, I don't want to be ungrateful, I'm just wondering how deeply they've thought about what they're doing and whether it meets bike trail users' needs.
Or am I completely out of order asking the question?
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I don't think you are out of line at all for for questioning/highlighting parts that are potentially 'dubious'.
I think it's more about directing your question/findings to the right ppl...
I (and a few thousand other ppl) ride the dam often and after the last 'public/official' trail maintenance session (that I'm aware of), the trail was pretty damn sweet. What I think has happened since the last trail maintenance day is that a combination of climatic erosion & recent grading work in the places you mentioned has made the trails 'a little more interesting'...
There are also a few other groups (fauna & flora) that do work in the park so it may have an impact on certain trail sections overtime (leaching then erosion etc.).
Thanks for that. Who would you suggest I direct these comments to? Do you have a person's name or the position I should write to at WSC?
Can they not bloody well maintain the trail so that I never fall off??? I was wondering what was wrong all these years, now I know, it's not me it's the trail of course, why didn't I think of that??
Seriously though the response above is spot on, it's rain, Sydney sandstone erosion and quite a few bike tyres that will have done this. Us who maintain the trail weren't born yesterday and some of us actually ride bikes too ;-}
Matt.
PS - If you want a solid surface to ride on, on which you'll never risk falling off, there's this newfangled stuff called tarmacadam I believe...
PPS - falling off is part of MTB'ing, if you're not falling off once in a while you're not smiling hard enough ;-}
Matt I'm not pretending to know the first thing about trail maintenance, although I would like to learn and intend doing a trail maintenance day this year, to put somethng back. (The issue for me is fitting it around my son's sporting commitments.)
I'm sorry if I offended, although not really surprised.
OK, let me make sure I've got this right: You're telling me that the rain also left the caterpillar track and blade scrape marks, and in the space of a week turned what was loose-over-hardpack into foot-deep sandtraps on a couple of faster corners ... when it didn't rain? I'm going to assume you didn't read the post properly.
It just seems to me that using sand to fix trail erosion on the riding line is a bit like me as a tradie painting over dry-rotted floor beams supporting an elevated barbeque area on the back of your house. It's a cosmetic fix only, doesn't do the job, and creates unpleasant surprises in a couple of situations where the consequences might not be trivial.
I don't mind falling off from time to time, it's part of the fun of it. It just that I've broken enough bones and cartilage mtbing this last 12 months to do me for quite a while, thanks. Now that I know people who "weren't born yesterday" like gifting those of us who apparently are with those sorts of little surprises, I'll ride more conservatively.
Ever thought the track machine was in there to get something else fixed up? Unfortunitly sometimes catepillar tracks tend to stir up the sand, especially when it's dry. My guess is a couple dozen rides over it and a bit of moisture and it will all pack in nicely.
But heaven forbid trail conditions to change. Maybe they should order the hot mix truck...
Hopefully.
Never the hotmix!
I get more than enough of that during the week, commuting.
Ah, look I have to admit I was a bit behind the bike today instead of ahead of it. Dunno if it was the sun over the track at midday affeting my depth perception, my glasses slightly fogged, or me being a bit clagged after punishing myself on the rides to work this week, but I definitely wasn't "seeing" the lines early enough or well enough and I ended up towelling the run before just before the last section to the dam wall.
I'm sticking to my guns though about questioning the wisdom of filling the ruts with sand.
Sorry mate if you took it hard, just stirring, nobody should be offended, just amused ;-}
From the vehemence of your post it sounds like they've brought the beach chairs and the Germans are putting down their towels... (apologies to all the lovely Germans I've met) If that's the case then I apologise for taking the piss, I just didn't think that would have happened and I'm disappointed if it has with all the hard work we put in. And I have no idea who erected the beachfront, if it is that extreme, but it wasn't the usual maintenance crew AFAIK.
Still, my approach would have been to spend more time on the bike riding it than writing to whinge to whoever did it.
Cheers,
Matt.
pop into the rangers office and have a chat. All of the ones I have met seem to be more than friendly and I am sure, without putting words into their mouths, would only be too happy to hear from people directly about their genuine concerns, particularly when it comes to safety on shared areas of trail.
On another note, its my experience that the contractors use never seem to get the clay / fines / coarse mix right. At TH it always seems like there is way too much clay when it first goes in and it sounds like here there isn't enough. That said, maybe it is there but because it hasn't rained since the work was done it hasn't had a chance to settle down. Time, and a little hard work, does tend to help these issues self correct after a while.
Happy trails and practice your sand riding skills while you have the chance.
Stuart
Yeh, Stuart & Matt, you're both exactly on the money - more riding time and opportunity to practice skills is definitely something I could do with. Once or twice every other week isn't really enough and you do go rusty real quick, more so when you're still on the learning curve and/or tired.
As I write this the thunderstorm that was threatening during the afternoon has finally broken and dropped some of its load, which should help a little, but the issue that I'll admit did "press my buttons" was that there didn't appear to be *any* clay in the mix in more than a few spots.
Thanks to all of you for your thoughtful responses and I look forward to meeting you on the trail.
Rode it this morning and after the rain and the traffic the sand seems to be packing down nicely now.
Don't really get this post.... I just rode the dam and have done a number of times in the last week and it's not overly sandy. Conditions change, we're lucky to have Manly dam, there is so much pressure on it from riders. If it's too hard for you, go and ride on the road, if it's too easy, go to Oxford falls. Nuff said.
When this thread was started, the Dam was sandy and could be regarded as "scary" in certain places, but it had nothing to do with past or present trail maintenance IMHO...
Since then, the Dam has once again morphed into what it is now...