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Is a 29er faster than a 26er
In the market to by a hard tail to compete on there are some very good bikes selling with top spec components that are sub 10kgs but are 26 inch bikes
Is there realy that much difference in how much energy it would take to finish a race at the same speed and time as it would take on a 29er
I have a 26 fun bike that I love plus my duel suspension 29er that I have done a couple of races on cant realy feel that much different between then
Realy can't decided between sub 10kg bike with top of the range group set but is a 26er or go a bit heavier 29er with quality group set but could be better
I'm never going to be at the pointy end of the field but would like to be a bit more competative
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Not this again...
But this question comes at it from a different angle, is it worth getting a 26er at a cut-down price because they're dead stock. My brother works for the distributor of a good european brand and they over-stocked on high-spec 26" hardtails and now they can't give them away.
It's pretty much proved that 29'ers are a better proposition for hardtails but at what price do you sacrifice a bit of speed for a bargain?
I'll happily accept a top spec 26" hard tail if they want to give em away.
Hardly scientific but at the Forsyth Mill Giant demo day I rode a trance 29er and my mate was on a Trance 27.5. On the non-pedally flow sections I had to keep dabbing the brakes to stop running into the back of him.
Should have said the bike will come from the second hand market most probably
As for the rolling along comment I'm not sure my 29er with slx hubs rolls well but my 26er with xt hubs I feel is just as quick and its a lighter bike by 1.2 kg
That's realy the hole question is a higher group spec and lighter components and frame of a quality 26 er going to be as good as a less speced slightly heavier 29er
There was a recent article in Enduro Mag on this very subject. It compared Jamis steel hardtails of the same model in all three wheel sizes.
Long story short is that the bigger wheels do give away a little bit in flickability and acceleration due to rotating mass, but despite all that if it's outright speed you're after 29ers win, no question.
My view is that for a given amount of suspension travel and similar geometry, the rougher the trail the more it favours the bigger wheel.
It's a fact that larger wheels drop into holes less deeply and therefore conserve momentum better... not because of their weight. We spend much more time at a steady speed in XC racing than we do accelerating so the advantages of a smaller wheel for quick acceleration are negated.
As to having to tap the brakes to avoid running up the back, yeah that is probably the effect of drafting more than wheel size.
No bike will suddenly make you competitive unless you are trying to pedal a 140mm travel slug around an xc course. 1 or 2 kg off a bike always makes the buyer/ rider feel much faster, but the physics difference is in seconds not minutes over an hour.
Same goes for 26 v 29. If the course suits 29, then that will be faster, if not then the 26er. But, most riders are faster on their bike that they know well.
Edit - actually there is one bike that goes faster - it's the one you love to ride, ride more, go faster
... which is why the most effective place to shed weight on a dollars per gram basis is off the engine, not the bike. A fast engine on a slow bike will beat a slow engine on a fast bike any day.
But this thread is about bikes, not the engines.
Given that the elites still nearly all pay for their own bikes out of their own pockets, what they choose to ride gives a good indication of what they think (at least) is fastest, rather than what the manufacturer wants to sell.
I see nearly all of them on 29ers.
To be honest Hawkeye, they probably haven't got much choice due to what's on the market anyway.
There's nothing stopping them from simply riding their old bikes if they're faster.
The competitive nature is such that there is little tolerance for gear that makes you slower and if an innovation doesn't work their money stays in their pockets. Instead, there has been a massive shift to the new wheel size.
Jason English was a late adopter and was reported in one race before making the move to have commented to another competitor that he was "getting slaughtered by the 29ers"
Would be interesting to have Antsonline's perspective.
Doesn't Jason ride a 27.5 merida hardtail?
Though he was selling a bike on Facebook the other week, I can't remember whether it was a 26er or 27.5. He'd have a real difficult time getting his front down enough for a 29er - he's what, 5'6?
... and/or weight distribution. They're about the only reasons you wouldn't go 29... if you can't get your bars low enough.
You could be right about Jason. The point remains though, he's gone to a bigger wheel than a 26".
Go to a marathon these days and you won't see many non 29ers. Says it all really.
Yeah but marathon races tend to have a lot of open and flowing type riding which suits them better. If you want to beat your mates around a tight illegal single track then 26 inch is the way to go.
Christoph Sauser's test ;
http://youtu.be/i0fJzRQVZPU
Narrow handlebars fixes that.
Not really a scientific test. The 29er is 1.077% faster, but his average HR is also 1.2% higher. Such a small difference could just as well have been humidity, temperature, tyre pressure, hydration or any of a hundred other influences. To get a meaningful result, would have to do it many times with many different riders.
Going from x7 or SLX to XX or XTR won't make much difference to anything other than your bank balance.
I mean, if manufacturers need to bring out a new group every year that pretty much means either last years technology was crap or the marketing gurus have us conned.
A 7.5 kg hard tail still weighs 100kg with a 92.5kg rider.
29" probably beats a 26" but the margin is slim and it's not the most exciting ride.
All that being said, never let rational decision making get in the way of adding another bike to your collection. I know I don't that's why I own six bikes and am currently building number seven.
tdunster hit the nail on the head. Unless you weight 50-60kg and are an elite or are super fit and super quick already then changing to a 29er isn't gonna be of benefit to you...
I know for me that I'm clearly the problem for my 26er... It would love to go quicker but I'm the donkey in the race
My 29er is faster for me I have taken minutes off lap times & its not all about my training I just know for me my bike can do & go more places faster on the tracks with the lesser effort. ? Last year at the same track I was on my 29er hrdtail this year was on a dually with the rear half locked out on my Scott bike .
The size of the smile on my face. Wheel size is (almost) irellivant
I put that up to show there is not much difference.
On smoother flatter courses my 29er hardtail is noticeably faster.especially if there's fire road sections.
If there's a lot of hills, technical twists & turns where speeds is rapidly lost & then needs to be built up again the advantage is lost.
Recently I've been trail riding on my 26" bikes again, set up with heavier treads & wheels rather than weight weenie race stuff, I've been loving it. Im not bending or breaking anything & the ride is really responsive & interactive.
In answer to your question though I'd say that if you are reasonably tall & fit enough to race on a hard tail the 29er with a few cost cuts would be my choice if racing is what you're interested in. Carbon bling & super light race wheels can come later.
T
... Long answer involves a lot of personal prejudices and testiculation........
Ride what feels good don't worry about the wheel size.
I've been to quite a few demos at Stromlo this year testing various bikes and wheel sizes. Notable bikes include the Pivot Carbon 429 (may), Trek Fuel 9.8 Carbon (sept), Anthem Carbon Advanced 27.5 (Nov) and lots of others. FWIW I ride an anthem x1 26" 2012. I make sure I always put in the same lap on each bike and log it on strava. Of course I've gotten fitter this year, lost a lot of weight and my skills have improved, so times I did in May don't compare properly to last month but here is my impression so far.
Hairpins, uphills (especially slightly technical) favour the smaller wheel sizes. They turn better and get moving again quicker due to less rotating mass and the smaller wheelsize is easier to get spinning than the 29er. The geometry of the bikes gets around corners that much better without losing grip sideways.
Smooth tracks - there's nothing in it. I did Husky this year in under 5 1/2hrs and was only 7mins slower than the fastest guy in my regualr group on a carbon 29er. Perhaps I might have beaten him on a 29er myself but I suspect there wasn't much in it. On a couple of uphill sections, as noted above, I pulled away from or was held up by 29er riders.
Downhills & uneven terrain - of course the larger the wheel the quicker its going to be over uneven stuff because it rolls better. But I was surprised that in berms (even tight ones like the Luge) that it still made a difference.
Now a few surprising things - up until I rode the anthem 27.5, nothing really beat my 26" anthem to the top of stromlo by much. The 27.5 bettered it by nearly 2mins (10% improvement). It didn't feel like it was going that fast, infact until I compared strava I thought my 26" had beaten it. I totally rate the 27.5" wheel size for that type of terrain. Going downhill the 29ers were all quickest but geometry played a part - short stays and slightly slacker head tube - the pivot still remains quickest downhill overall which brings me to my final point.
Obviously rider fitness and ability matter more than the bike or wheel size. Buying a better bike may take a few seconds off but its not going to be much. It will feel different though and that goes a long way to the mental side of things - if it feels better and is more fun then its a good thing right? Losing weight and improving your skills matter more in real terms though. Next I'd say that different wheel sizes, geometry and suspension favour different courses. Husky is hardtail territory, Convict 100 is 29er dualy territory, other races are different again. Obviously you can't have bikes for all occasions so buy the bike that best suits the majority of your riding. I'm riding the offerings from specialized at stromlo in Jan so will have a more complete picture... but I suspect that (me being a shortarse and riding a small frame size) short of winning lotto and buying a pivot, the anthem 27.5 might be my next bike.
I need to ride a santa cruz and niner though...
If you can get a high spec 26" that is a dream to ride it is also going to be quick, unless you always ride in areas with rocky technical descents. If you enjoy riding 26" more than 29" then its a no brainer. I'm going up to at least the 27.5" because I race 100kers mainly and don't ride all mountain.
And that's a good segue back to the OP's requirements.
He wants a bike to *compete* on, and was considering a hardtail.
Generally that means more open flowy courses, without start-stop tight tricky corners, and without techy all-mountainesque climbs, descents and drops.
That's going to be a a 29er, or 650b if he's a shortarse.
I still have my 26er and *really* enjoy riding it - junior isn't getting his hands on it anytime soon despite dropping hints - but it's well overshadowed now as a race bike.
Thanks guys I'm 5ft7 and 69kgs so small guy riding on average 180kms on road on the 29er superfly dualy with suspension locked out for training then say 60 or a it more kms a week on my trek fuel 9 26er for fun and trail practice still leaning to a secondhand high spec 26er at the moment
I'm the same height, though 12kegs heavier (having lost 15kegs already this year and heading downwards). I'm doing much the same on roads usually - though upto 300-400km a week if I'm in training for a race. I find 29er geometry a bit comprised on a small frame unless its really clever like my dream bike - Pivot 429 Carbon. That bike was all sorts of fun to ride.
I rode the superfly at the trek demo day in Sept. I rode the Fuel 29er (both carbon) next - I was faster on the fuel, felt better to me. I'm not great at techy stuff coming from a roady background (I can't ride the first big downhill at the dam). You should demo a 27.5, just to be sure. The anthem advanced didn't have the same zing as the pivot but it was pretty good, geomtry was right, nice and efficient but like all giants they lack soul.
Never realy thought about 27.5 as there's none on the secondhand market price isn't the biggest concern just value for money and what's best for the type of event I want to do
Thinking Kalamunda 50 ,Jorgenson park 4 hour , Dwellingup 100 maybe a couple of shorter races depending on the shift roster
I haven't seen any tech climbs at Stromlo but at places like Red Hill (sydney) the 29ers rule for getting up the technical rocky accents - gotta get your gearing right though. When my mates ride their 26s they are walking up a lot of the tech stuff. Fire roads climbs - not much difference.
"gotta get your gearing right though"
I think that's the key more than wheel size
Not watching all the walking up tech climbs you do with your baby wheels
But I only ever walk if I don't get the gearing right!
Tech climbs: Gear choice is important, and wheel size probably makes a difference depending on the climb. But I think the most important thing is balancing the bike at low speeds, using similar skills as track stands. I find that lowering the seat helps with this (as it does for steep descents).
Of course balance is less important for short sharp climbs where momentum gets you up and over....
For those with 29er experience, do you find bigger wheels as easy to balance and manouver at low speeds?
No different/better to track stand but I do find the longer contact patch means less rear wheel slippage, and when it does slip I am more likely to keep going than stall compared to a 26er.
That's been my finding for a few different 29ers I've ridden (Spot Rocker SS, Ellsworth Evolve, C'dale Trigger and Scalpel, Giant Anthem) so I'm confident it's more than the tyres, although they help of course.