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Smart Phone GPS or Garmin / Similar Bike Computer
I just lost my dumb phone and am in the market for a new smart one. My question is are smart phones adequate for GPS tracking and current location on a map whilst out on the trails, or should I be looking to get a separate GPS Bike Computer?
The primary use for this is going to be finding my way around new trails here and overseas, so I need current map location etc.
If phones are OK are they all essentially the same, but depend on the app it's running? ie. can I get away with buying a cheap phone?
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Yes, you could probably get away with a smart phone.
No, you probably don't want to.
Disadvantages of smartphones: fragile, not waterproof (some Sony's are getting there though), terrible battery life when both screen and GPS are on, should be kept as a backup device in case of emergency (ie. you get lost, your GPS dies, you need to phone someone - if you are using your phone as a GPS it's battery is likely dead, etc, etc).
Some GPSs, like the Garmin Edge 800 can be loaded with maps. Some, like the cheaper Edge 200/500 can only be pre-programmed with a route to follow.
You pays your money, you takes your choice, but personally I won't put a phone (or anything else I cared about breaking) on the bars of a bike.
I use my iphone kept in my camelbak with the Mountain Bike Pro app for shorter stuff - fine for a couple of laps around Manly Dam but generally a fully charged battery is almost dead after 40 to 50km. I wouldn't want to mount it to the bars either! A dedicated GPS cycle computer would be a better bet and has much better battery life.
Magellan have just released the Cyclo 500 series which I believe you can load the Bicycling Australia Where to Ride maps into. I'm sure other makes/models will do similar.
Just a note if you go for the Cyclo range - I found out after I bought my 105 that the interface to download and upload your routes doesn't seem to work with a Mac!
I don't disagree with Rob, but surely a GPS attached to your bars is just as vulnerable in a crash as a phone?
Furthermore a map following one is almost as expensive as a smartphone, and attaching a phone to your bars usually involves inserting it in a protective case.
Personally I use a spare iPhone4 with the Wahoo gear. I can follow routes if I want, but usually I know where I'm riding so I stow the phone in my Camelbak. When I do follow a route it's unlikely that I'm going to be riding as hard as I would on trails I know.
So for me I'd ideally get a cheaper non map following GPS for most ride logging, and use the smartphone on those limited occasions I need to follow a route. The thing is I don't really need to because the battery life is fine on the phone if the display isn't on, I had the phone spare after upgrading, so buying the Wahoo gear was cheaper given the functionality available. Wahoo also address the battery issue with an external battery option.
When riding, I use a Garmin 800 and have my iPhone in my camelback which is more in case if I have problem and have to call… and therefor I'm on Telstra for great coverage.
Buying the Garmin 800 was a bit an expensive for what I'm using it… but I love this kind of gadget. It's great to have all in one, but frankly it's hard to get lost on most of the trails (around Sydney), most of them have directional signs.
If you want to use your smartphone for directions, I recommend to use an app that runs OpenStreetMap that you can preload in the phone; so if you don't reception, you will be sure you have the map displayed! And perhaps it will help on the battery usage, which btw you can extend if a small external battery, who should give you enough power for a long ride.
If you're going overseas, with a Garmin you will need to buy the maps of the country/continent. You can combine maps, but that's a hard exercise!
Also keep in mind the screens on most phones are almost useless in full sun.
Ive used both
The Iphone in a wahoo case which makes it waterproof as well as shock proof.
I now use a Garmin 510.
The phone case is bulky but gives you all the options you want. If you were to use Strava or whatever app you like.
The Wahoo app will give you all the options. al the shit you want to see while you ride. It also loads straight up to strava.
the Iphone will last you maybe 3 hrs max. from full.
The Garmin. In a lot of ways its shit. but he 510 is compact. the 800 or 810 will give you maps. But the HRM is total crap.
the strap needs to be thrown out. I was ripping my hair out with the HRM taking 10 min to warm up. givving false readings in cold weather, The strap is a piece of crap.
I now use the Wahoo strap , very nicely with the Garmin HRM.
not seeing the sceen in full sun in the Iphone?? Ive not noticed that. But not saying it can't happen.
I also have to load up to strava manually or export GPX from the garmin site.
so maybe this will help you decide.
edit: the reason I use the Garmin is because its just doesnt run out of batteries. I was so close to selling it off because I had more than a fair share of grief with garmin add on bits. Ive stopped using the speed/cadence sensor because it just paused for no reason. I now know its because it kept comming out of allignment. The HRM strap turned out to be the trouble of my grief with irregular HRM results.
I'm now a happy camper with my set up. I use the phone for emergencies. I love the virtual partner, and I love the Live track for races and if I'm leaving work late for the comute. Live Track is great to let the better half konw where I'm at.
If I was to spend the money again with the knowlege I have now? Not sure.
I can't comment on the iPhone, but my HTC One is hopeless in the sun.
fair call
As you mention you want to use the device overseas something to consider is the data costs if using the smartphone.
If it's going to use a lot of data, and you're roaming, then it will cost a lot. If you pick up local country SIM's then you may get a much better deal.
Cheers,
Mike.
I concur with Rob's comments. The phone's a critical bit of safety gear. Not something I want to take chances with on 60km solo rides.
I've not had the dramas with the HRM strap or speed and cadence sensor. Any failure to pick up has been due to the magnet moving... easily fixed.
Love my Garmin. The mapping function has gotten me out of trouble a couple of times on solo night rides where I got confused by the bounceback off the foreground from my lights on overgrown trails and couldn't find where I'd come into a section of dead end sniggle.
The ability to follow a downloaded track was great when scoping out the 2012 Mont course with Hans and TheFlyingAl.
Mapswithme is a free iPhone app with free maps. You download the map of a whole country and it's stored in the phone so you don't need to download data as you go. The map for Australia is about 110 meg so do it at home through your wireless network. The map includes all the good mountain bike tracks in WA on the map.
Cheers for all the tips - super helpful. I think I'm definitely going to have to splash a bit of cash and get both. I'm going to be doing heaps of solo riding overseas on unknown trails, many longer runs 5-6 hours, so based on all of this input the phone will only be a bit of safety kit. That said I'll check into Wahoo with the external battery option too.
Thanks StevieG for the note re. Magellan not being mac compatible. So I guess the Garmin Edge 800 / 810 is the front runner. Does anyone know of any competitors that are as good? I've been looking around on the net and it seems garmin have pretty well got the market place (if I'm excluding Magellan because of the mac thing).
I've already got a HRM so not worried about getting a bundle that includes it… it sounds like the garmin one can be a bit patchy anyway.
Nothing wrong with a paper gps. print a map before you leave. I love my Garmin 500 and it does not have the map function. The few thimes I've been hesitant as to which turn to take on a new ride. I've pulled out my map or trail head photo I took on my phone before riding. I save my phone in case of emergency and have used the strava app on the odd times I forgot to pack my Garmin.
Summary: Garmin or similar bike computers are very robust (I've done everything to mine including the full river submersion at the Convict) and you can see them in pretty much all conditions. Phones use a lot of battery and should be kept ready for accidents or for those awful moments ("darling my free hub just ceased - can you come and get me). The new phones are very robust (HTC One, Nokia Lumia, Sony NOT Galaxy's) but you don't want them on your handle bars.
As a twist to that, I've recently got a Wahoo RFLKT+ which finally solves my issue of smart phone battery life and the potential damage of strapping a phone to the bars. It's effectively an external display (same size as a edge 500) for the iphone that let's you keep the phone tucked away safely with the screen off.
I use it with a Wahoo HR strap and speed/cadence sensor and it's been working very nicely including 80km in the wet last week. Overall the setup has cost about $250, a bit cheaper than a garmin 500, but you need to have an iphone. I went this way rather than a closed system like the Garmin because of the flexibility and choice of apps which are always evolving and improving.
It does put the reliance on the phone and it's battery but it seems to be fine. I also bought an external battery/recharger that can recharge an iphone fully a few times per charge and it has a solar panel as well, $20 on ebay so not expensive, but have never had to use it.
Just another angle
Mate, if you want a device with mapping look at Etrex 20.....you can upload other peeps rides, make your own and upload from Ride with GPS etc , if you are just out exploring you can follow your own track back ,, its a great piece of kit for those looking for gps with mapping, its used alot by the bikepacking brigade to help them navigate ...take a look ?...forgot to add...2xAA batteries = approx 25hrs useage....you cant beat that
I got a garmin 500 brand new at a good price from a LBS and use map my ride when I use my garmin riding with my mate we get 2 different readings he using his iphone , then we both use our phones and we still get different distance readings ?
I use this on the bike and for other activities as well.
Bigger than a bike computer, but more robust.
Free maps from Openstreetmap.
For MTB i use my iPhone in my camelbak.
Riding with others and using my Garmin occasionally, the results are extremely consistent and accurate.
I wouldn't put a phone or any device on my MTB bars. The vibrations and impacts could make for a very short life.
For road I use both my iPhone and a Garmin on the bars. No issues in 18 months.
For maps, the Garmin 800 at least, has a small, low resolution screen. Addresses are difficult to enter, routes are hard to see and follow. Forget about browsing the map for anything. On the plus side the unit is robust and the battery life is great.
The iPhone is sort of the opposite. Easy to browse and navigate, but the battery could be flat in as little as 3 hours.
iOS7, for example, has some handy tricks where you can turn off the screen and it will wake up and show your map and directions before a corner, before it goes back to sleep. The screen uses the majority of power, so this dramatically increases battery life.
I ended up going for a cheap smartphone and a Garmin eTrex 20 (cheers @fh6162) - it does everything I need for half the price of an edge 800. Thanks again for all the advice.
I have a simple garmin 310 which is great for running/ riding when you analyse data after the ride ... but on a recent trip to canberra found myself getting lost on some trails and needed to check the map i had ... was not accurate (focused) as i would hoping and spent an hour or two lost ....
anyway i was wondering about the batteries on the etrex as it looks the good?
are they rechargeable like the watch/ 510/ 810 garmins?
cheers
Matt
Garmin website says "25-hour battery life with 2 AA batteries" for eTrex
In losing this, I was gutted losing 2 rides and being addicted to Strava (lets face who isn't?) and worried about persuading the love of my other life that I should be allowed to spend +$300 on the replacement. For my ride on Sunday though (Final training ride before the Punishment http://www.strava.com/activities/118883255) I used the free Strava App on my Galaxy phone. I was really worried about the battery running down on my precious safety device (which I have tested properly - search "Wallaby") BUT the phone was great. With plenty of stops for my mates chain break histrionics I was out on the trails for a good while and the battery held up. If you don't care about the heart rate and you don't need to measure too accurately on the road then for free it was everything I could ask for. Also, I hit the save button at the end of the ride and had my first ironic Kudos hit before I was out the shower. I will not be replacing the Garmin and the better half can waste the money on something irresponsible. If your reading dear, that was a joke.
I just downloaded Mapswithme and looked around the neighbourhood.
It seems to have a level of detail not even my topo map shows.
I'll take it out into the bush asap and will aim to remember and come back with some feedback. (right now I have the lite / free version).
If something isn't on the Mapswithme map you can easily add it on the OSM website.
Yeh, dam busy have been those Open Street Map mappers. Actually, the data was a lot better before the licence redaction in 2012, NSW was badly affected. Still lots to rebuilt in some areas.
btw - how useful is the etrex20 with just the base map or do you really need to buy the extra 200 bucks worth of maps to get anywhere with these garmins?
You can download the OSM map which is free.
Try one of these for mounting your phone, waterproofish, room underneath for food etc an I have not knocked or noticed it on the bike, um cheap too.
http://www.ebay.co.uk/sch/i.html?_trksid=p205060...
My main aim would be to use the GPS (maybe an etrex20?) when out on unknown trails, so battery life, accuracy etc are key. I totally don't care if I need to stop and shade the screen to see it in the sun and to figure out where to go next. I just don't want to spend 250 bucks, then realising that I need to double that to actually make it use bc I need to buy the maps, so OSM + previous GPX track data sounds like my preference.
Still contemplating though, for the local rides (1/2days) my iphone is fine.
I am preparing for the first full day trail and want to do more of those, plus multi day ones in the future (need to up my fitness first - hehe)
iphone in one of those bags, maybe with downloaded maps, and maybe one of those external batteries in the bottom of the bag, Bob's your proverbial.
Just spotted this at one of those Aldi Special buys things, looked interesting https://www.aldi.com.au/en/special-buys/saturday...
All74, I'd be weary of the accuracy of the Aldi GPS. Spend the extra 50 and get one of these:-
https://buy.garmin.com/en-AU/AU/fitness-products...
in fact I am still thinking of spending double that (ok yes, waiting one more pay cycle) and get an etrax
BTW - Pete B - this is a freaky coincidence, I mean our names