You have to wonder though. Why ride along in the breakdown lane on a freeway where cars/trucks whizz past at 100kmh when there is a purpose built separated cycleway running right alongisde???
I mean why would you take the risk when you have a choice NOT to ride on the road.
Some cyclists may say that the cycle path is also dangerous due to walkers but i sure know with whom I would rather take my chances with...and it aint a 1-2 tonne + piece of Metal.
I must say whilst the M7 is a noble venture in terms of cars/bikes coming together it's still very disjointed. It's hard getting between the cycleway and the shoulder of the road without jumping a fence (very hard in lycra and cleats). I just rode on the shoulder of the road.
When i did the M7 there was components of the M7 that was ridiculously confusing as to where i was meant to ride and how to get there. Still a noble idea nonetheless.
But in hindsight i'm sure riding on the cycleway is probably worth it for the safety reasons that you mentioned.
For me the example of the M7 and M2 raises the question, Are the people who design the cycleways/shoulders of roads cyclists???? I'd have to say no from my time on the M2 and M7 which i have done copious amounts of time commuting to work.
i ride on both the cycleway and shoulder, must admit i do prefer the cycleway though as its more "interesting" with the slight rises, s bends, other riders etc. I tend to only use the shoulder if i want to keep a fast average speed. M7 shoulder is much safer IMO then riding on a 1 or even 2 lane road with no shoulder at all. I guess though to make it that bit safer we should ride single file and keep to the left, this would give an extra metre or so of buffer, i know i will be so from now on.
The cycleway is a great bit of road, i use it 2 to 3 times a week minimum as part of my commute, very safe, smooth and fast if you want it to be, a group of us do a regular ride on tuesday nights and average 30-32km/h going to Prestons and back from sunnyholt rd (approx 75km)
There has been a lot of commentary on talk back radio on the cyclist/cycleway and dedicated cycle lanes and let me tell you, the sentiment against is totally scary.
You would be very game riding two or three wide in a traffic lane in Sydney.
Take care all.
I have long been under the impression that it is against the law to ride abreast of other riders in a single lane on a road.... that your only suppossed to ride single file. Anyone know if that's correct or not?
Definitely, 2 abreast is legal for motor and pedal cycles. More than 2 abreast is not legal, unless the third is overtaking.
Driver ignorance in this state regarding cyclist rights and obligations is an utter travesty. If the government spent just a small portion of of what it spent on useless cycleways on public education, a lot of these issues would go away. And it can be as simple and cost-effective as putting one compulsory question in the driver knowledge test about how to safely pass a cyclist, like they do for alcohol limits. It's not rocket science, and it would go a long way towards limiting the ignorance driven drivel a lot of drivers crap on with about bikes.
I occasionally do it when cycling in traffic. It forces drivers to treat me like they should - anohter vehicle with the same rights as them - and use their indicator to change lanes, instead of trying to squeeze me into the cars parked on the left as they try to force their way past.
Usually it attracts abuse, so I don't do it that often.
Looking at the photos in today's Sunday Telegraph, I don't see how the driver of the truck is going to avoid a charge of negligent driving causing death. At least we have survivors, so there's some chance of the truth coming out.
driving past there at 6-45am and the road was just closed, we where one of the first to be sent of the M7 on my way to Jindy.I, too do not understand why these things happen, but on the M7 the cycle path is just next to it. We saw a lot of roady's on the M7 that morning.
I had to ride to the Airport (from Turramurra) on Thursday morning, as I left my Car at the overnight parking and drove our other car back from QLD with my Fam. and when I hit the HWY on Thursday morning at 5-30am and saw the trafic already building up, I went traight to the train station and went on the train to Central and rode side street's to the Airport.
Very sad news, think of his/there Fam.!
Bernd
Bernd
When I cycle back from Centennial Park to Woolloomooloo, I now ride in the middle of the road, so cars have to either slow down or change lanes to get around me. I recently cycled in the bus lane down Oxford Street and almost got hit by a bus just pulling out without even looking.
whats very sad is that the M7 has a full car width shoulder, cars/trucks should not be in there so there has to have been some neglect fron the driver, lost concentration, fell asleep, whatever. Its just very sad, and unfortunately the driver will most probably get a fine and lose some demerit points. IMO if you kill someone whether it be by accident or not the punishment should be quite severe.
I am quite saddened by this as i ride there alot and its a place i feel very safe as i have my own lane and dont have to share with the other drivers. Think my road riding now may have to be altered slightly to take in quieter/safer roads, or is there such a thing?
Submitted by Little-Ditty on Sun, 25/01/2009 - 19:16.
Why ride on a motorway? Are these people crazy? There are already enough ways to die in this world without adding in another one. As an individual, there does not seem to be much you can do about these risks. Just ask a motorcyclist, who is something like 30 times the risk of a fatality on the road compared to a car driver. There can be no argument between metal and flesh. The car will always wins (or truck in this case). If you want to protect yourself, ride away from cars.
Why ride on a motorway? Are these people crazy? There are already enough ways to die in this world without adding in another one.
Sure... and why even step outside your house if that's your philosophy? Riding in a separate, dedicated bike lane along side any road should be just as safe as riding a fire trail. Not as enjoyable, but that's their choice. When it's not as safe there are only other road users to blame as seems to be the case here if the surviving rider's statement is anything to go by (was just riding along and all of a sudden a big 'bang' and her two companions were gone!).
Sure, accidents happen, but was this one preventable? Let's see what the report says.
There is no doubt that the drivers in Sydney are cr@p and many accidents are avoidable. Education and tougher sentences for those who drive without care for other road users is the key. Will it ever happen? Too many drivers (think they) need their cars for the politicians to do the right thing so looks like this won't be happening here for a while.
so what your saying is that motorcyclists and scooter riders should get off the road also, what about drivers of Mini's and Nissan Micra's, they should get off the road also as they are small compared to Trucks. The road is there to share, people just need to be made accountable fo there actions.
Submitted by Little-Ditty on Sun, 25/01/2009 - 20:18.
I agree, to a point. But there is not much recourse to the rider in this newspaper article. Just like the motorcyclist who straps on his/her helmet each time for a ride, you know you are taking on a lot of extra risk. Cyclists know the risks, and it is unfortunate that these risks are proven.
No mater what your personal opinion about lycra and road bikes is the plain fact is that these guys weren’t doing anything wrong, illegal or crazy what so ever and a truck literally mows them down one is dead it could of easily have been three. Its just dumb I hope the police get to the bottom of this and the book is thrown at this guy if he is found to have caused the accident.
I drive to and from the city every day. My opinion is the biggest issue I see with other drivers is when they are talking on the phone or even worse, typing messages. So many drivers get so distracted that they can't stay in their lane.
Coming from Europe where riding on motorways is totally banned, I'm actually shocked you are allowed to ride on motorways here and I think it should be banned. In fact IMO riding should be banned anywhere where the speed limit is 90+ k/h.
Sure the road is there to share but but even if there is a big shoulder or lane next to a super highway, the risk isn't worth taking!!
I tend to agree with the comments about not riding on motorways. I tried it once on the M7 but stick to the cycle path now. Perhaps it was subliminal but the absence of cars seems to have been the key factor.
If there is an alternative, why increase the risk? The breakdown lane as far as I know, is not the dedicated bike lane on the M7. I drove past the accident site yesterday and its hard to fathom how it could have happened.
I had a couple of cyclists pull out in front of me the other day heading in North Sydney. They did not "look" very experienced but rode like they owned the road and made a very silly move. Fortunately it was avoidable as most accidents probably are. But accidents happen....doesnt help the person who is at the receiving end of an accident, avoidable or not.
Suburban roads is a different matter and they really ought to be constructed with lane widths and verges that are not third world. We have the narrowest lanes in the world to the point where speed has to be limited because of it (M2 west is a prime example).
The do-gooders trying to prevent road deaths are lobbying to lower the speed limits under the moniker "speed kills". So if everyone does 40Kmh in the city and 80Kmh on freeways less people will die in accidents. Well sure this is true but really, if you dont hit immovable objects at 100Kmh+ you wont die either. Speed doesnt kill, lapses in concentration, mistakes, idiots kill. Unfortunately we will never stop idiots having accidents or accidents themselves but we can manage risks.
Education and tougher sentences does not stop these things happening. Motorcyclists and cyclists will always come off second best in an accident and thats the known risk you take.
I am not up for the cotton wool element by a long stretch but hey, ride the motorways, at least understand the risks.
In Europe you are not allow to ride on the motorway at all cars are traveling at 130Km/h and there is no cycling lane ...
To say no riding at 90 km/h zone is a bit over the top as this is going to limit cyclist to riding in the city with the most traffic...Backcountry road could be worst than riding on the motorway here in Sydney ...in Dunedin for example we have a beautiful coast line road, amazing 70km ride ..But even early on the morning people think they are the king of the road and speed and cut corners and this road is really windy ...so I think when you out there riding your bike you must be aware of your surrounding and take due care. Sometime even when you are a wise cyclist shit happens and this is the really weird and sad side of life I guess...
All our thoughts to the family and friends of the people involved ...
Submitted by delicious on Mon, 26/01/2009 - 11:02.
This sort of thing will always be a massive problem and there is no prefect solution.
I often ride the M7 cyclepath and the Windsor Road cycle path from Baulkham Hills to Windsor.
Sometimes the actual path gets clogged with casual cyclists, children, joggers and pedestians walking six abreast. I have often left the path to ride on the road to avoid this congestion. Imagine a group of very fast roadies who just want to ride without having to slow or take evasive action due to one or more of the aforementioned.
Also, I often ride in the Royal National Park early in the morning and frequently am buzzed by motorcyclists who are travelling at warp speed. Also, the occasional dopey car driver rounding a turn and drifting a little wide will give a fright.
As for the excitement of commuting. Don't get me started.
Our past-time is frought with danger and we all need to carry that risk, otherwise all of us will stay home, hiding behind the couch, covered in a blanket. I don't mind being responsible for my own f%$k-ups. All to often when things go pear shaped for road cyclists, it's a car drivers fault. Therefore, the law needs to address this and drivers who injure or kill a cyclist should receive very severe punishment. The excuse 'I didn't see him' is just not acceptable.
I know no one is perfect. I know we all make mistakes. I get all that. Yet, drivers need to wake up and accept that cyclists are valid road users and as time rolls on cyclists numbers will increase. Severe and harsh punishment with a lot of avertising may cause drivers to look more attentively.
This also goes for me too. I try my very best to be a careful driver.
I think the elite cyclist can start forget how fragile the human body is and loses the perspective of what is more important being alive, or taking on the traffic. Dress bright and remember that in Sydney that the driver coming up behind you generally won't have the same level of respect for cyclists as you do, and may not have even seen you. I'd rather run into a pedestrian than get hit by a car.
It was a beautiful morning and I saw many more riders out on road on the way to Ourimbah that usual.
Wonder why the truck hit them? Fatigue? Mechanical?
Or just not payng attention? Maybe just the usual defect of the Sydney driver never being able to see anything with less than four wheels?
You wonder how someone can overlook three cyclists...
You have to wonder though. Why ride along in the breakdown lane on a freeway where cars/trucks whizz past at 100kmh when there is a purpose built separated cycleway running right alongisde???
I mean why would you take the risk when you have a choice NOT to ride on the road.
Some cyclists may say that the cycle path is also dangerous due to walkers but i sure know with whom I would rather take my chances with...and it aint a 1-2 tonne + piece of Metal.
Thats true Tommo,
I must say whilst the M7 is a noble venture in terms of cars/bikes coming together it's still very disjointed. It's hard getting between the cycleway and the shoulder of the road without jumping a fence (very hard in lycra and cleats). I just rode on the shoulder of the road.
When i did the M7 there was components of the M7 that was ridiculously confusing as to where i was meant to ride and how to get there. Still a noble idea nonetheless.
But in hindsight i'm sure riding on the cycleway is probably worth it for the safety reasons that you mentioned.
For me the example of the M7 and M2 raises the question, Are the people who design the cycleways/shoulders of roads cyclists???? I'd have to say no from my time on the M2 and M7 which i have done copious amounts of time commuting to work.
I drove from Brisbane to Kingscliff, just past the Gold Coast, today and there were cycle paths along most roads...
Strangely enough, as soon I passed the NSW border, the road started to get really bad?!
i ride on both the cycleway and shoulder, must admit i do prefer the cycleway though as its more "interesting" with the slight rises, s bends, other riders etc. I tend to only use the shoulder if i want to keep a fast average speed. M7 shoulder is much safer IMO then riding on a 1 or even 2 lane road with no shoulder at all. I guess though to make it that bit safer we should ride single file and keep to the left, this would give an extra metre or so of buffer, i know i will be so from now on.
The cycleway is a great bit of road, i use it 2 to 3 times a week minimum as part of my commute, very safe, smooth and fast if you want it to be, a group of us do a regular ride on tuesday nights and average 30-32km/h going to Prestons and back from sunnyholt rd (approx 75km)
Don
There has been a lot of commentary on talk back radio on the cyclist/cycleway and dedicated cycle lanes and let me tell you, the sentiment against is totally scary.
You would be very game riding two or three wide in a traffic lane in Sydney.
Take care all.
I have long been under the impression that it is against the law to ride abreast of other riders in a single lane on a road.... that your only suppossed to ride single file. Anyone know if that's correct or not?
Col
two abreast is legal when cycling. Though why you would do it in traffic is beyond me.
My brother works with the guy who was driving the truck. I have no details as yet but apparently he is in deep shock and absolutely devastated.
Definitely, 2 abreast is legal for motor and pedal cycles. More than 2 abreast is not legal, unless the third is overtaking.
Driver ignorance in this state regarding cyclist rights and obligations is an utter travesty. If the government spent just a small portion of of what it spent on useless cycleways on public education, a lot of these issues would go away. And it can be as simple and cost-effective as putting one compulsory question in the driver knowledge test about how to safely pass a cyclist, like they do for alcohol limits. It's not rocket science,
and it would go a long way towards limiting the ignorance driven drivel a lot of drivers crap on with about bikes.
I occasionally do it when cycling in traffic. It forces drivers to treat me like they should - anohter vehicle with the same rights as them - and use their indicator to change lanes, instead of trying to squeeze me into the cars parked on the left as they try to force their way past.
Usually it attracts abuse, so I don't do it that often.
Looking at the photos in today's Sunday Telegraph, I don't see how the driver of the truck is going to avoid a charge of negligent driving causing death. At least we have survivors, so there's some chance of the truth coming out.
Here's a follow up story on SMH:
http://www.smh.com.au/news/national/truck-driver...
driving past there at 6-45am and the road was just closed, we where one of the first to be sent of the M7 on my way to Jindy.I, too do not understand why these things happen, but on the M7 the cycle path is just next to it. We saw a lot of roady's on the M7 that morning.
I had to ride to the Airport (from Turramurra) on Thursday morning, as I left my Car at the overnight parking and drove our other car back from QLD with my Fam. and when I hit the HWY on Thursday morning at 5-30am and saw the trafic already building up, I went traight to the train station and went on the train to Central and rode side street's to the Airport.
Very sad news, think of his/there Fam.!
Bernd
Bernd
When I cycle back from Centennial Park to Woolloomooloo, I now ride in the middle of the road, so cars have to either slow down or change lanes to get around me. I recently cycled in the bus lane down Oxford Street and almost got hit by a bus just pulling out without even looking.
whats very sad is that the M7 has a full car width shoulder, cars/trucks should not be in there so there has to have been some neglect fron the driver, lost concentration, fell asleep, whatever. Its just very sad, and unfortunately the driver will most probably get a fine and lose some demerit points. IMO if you kill someone whether it be by accident or not the punishment should be quite severe.
I am quite saddened by this as i ride there alot and its a place i feel very safe as i have my own lane and dont have to share with the other drivers. Think my road riding now may have to be altered slightly to take in quieter/safer roads, or is there such a thing?
Don
Why ride on a motorway? Are these people crazy? There are already enough ways to die in this world without adding in another one. As an individual, there does not seem to be much you can do about these risks. Just ask a motorcyclist, who is something like 30 times the risk of a fatality on the road compared to a car driver. There can be no argument between metal and flesh. The car will always wins (or truck in this case). If you want to protect yourself, ride away from cars.
Sure... and why even step outside your house if that's your philosophy? Riding in a separate, dedicated bike lane along side any road should be just as safe as riding a fire trail. Not as enjoyable, but that's their choice. When it's not as safe there are only other road users to blame as seems to be the case here if the surviving rider's statement is anything to go by (was just riding along and all of a sudden a big 'bang' and her two companions were gone!).
Sure, accidents happen, but was this one preventable? Let's see what the report says.
There is no doubt that the drivers in Sydney are cr@p and many accidents are avoidable. Education and tougher sentences for those who drive without care for other road users is the key. Will it ever happen? Too many drivers (think they) need their cars for the politicians to do the right thing so looks like this won't be happening here for a while.
so what your saying is that motorcyclists and scooter riders should get off the road also, what about drivers of Mini's and Nissan Micra's, they should get off the road also as they are small compared to Trucks. The road is there to share, people just need to be made accountable fo there actions.
Don
I agree, to a point. But there is not much recourse to the rider in this newspaper article. Just like the motorcyclist who straps on his/her helmet each time for a ride, you know you are taking on a lot of extra risk. Cyclists know the risks, and it is unfortunate that these risks are proven.
This is a tragedy full stop.
No mater what your personal opinion about lycra and road bikes is the plain fact is that these guys weren’t doing anything wrong, illegal or crazy what so ever and a truck literally mows them down one is dead it could of easily have been three. Its just dumb I hope the police get to the bottom of this and the book is thrown at this guy if he is found to have caused the accident.
Like walking down the footpath, accidents will always happen but a life in cotton wool is worse.
I drive to and from the city every day. My opinion is the biggest issue I see with other drivers is when they are talking on the phone or even worse, typing messages. So many drivers get so distracted that they can't stay in their lane.
Coming from Europe where riding on motorways is totally banned, I'm actually shocked you are allowed to ride on motorways here and I think it should be banned. In fact IMO riding should be banned anywhere where the speed limit is 90+ k/h.
Sure the road is there to share but but even if there is a big shoulder or lane next to a super highway, the risk isn't worth taking!!
Tom
I tend to agree with the comments about not riding on motorways. I tried it once on the M7 but stick to the cycle path now. Perhaps it was subliminal but the absence of cars seems to have been the key factor.
If there is an alternative, why increase the risk? The breakdown lane as far as I know, is not the dedicated bike lane on the M7. I drove past the accident site yesterday and its hard to fathom how it could have happened.
I had a couple of cyclists pull out in front of me the other day heading in North Sydney. They did not "look" very experienced but rode like they owned the road and made a very silly move. Fortunately it was avoidable as most accidents probably are. But accidents happen....doesnt help the person who is at the receiving end of an accident, avoidable or not.
Suburban roads is a different matter and they really ought to be constructed with lane widths and verges that are not third world. We have the narrowest lanes in the world to the point where speed has to be limited because of it (M2 west is a prime example).
The do-gooders trying to prevent road deaths are lobbying to lower the speed limits under the moniker "speed kills". So if everyone does 40Kmh in the city and 80Kmh on freeways less people will die in accidents. Well sure this is true but really, if you dont hit immovable objects at 100Kmh+ you wont die either. Speed doesnt kill, lapses in concentration, mistakes, idiots kill. Unfortunately we will never stop idiots having accidents or accidents themselves but we can manage risks.
Education and tougher sentences does not stop these things happening. Motorcyclists and cyclists will always come off second best in an accident and thats the known risk you take.
I am not up for the cotton wool element by a long stretch but hey, ride the motorways, at least understand the risks.
In Europe you are not allow to ride on the motorway at all cars are traveling at 130Km/h and there is no cycling lane ...
To say no riding at 90 km/h zone is a bit over the top as this is going to limit cyclist to riding in the city with the most traffic...Backcountry road could be worst than riding on the motorway here in Sydney ...in Dunedin for example we have a beautiful coast line road, amazing 70km ride ..But even early on the morning people think they are the king of the road and speed and cut corners and this road is really windy ...so I think when you out there riding your bike you must be aware of your surrounding and take due care. Sometime even when you are a wise cyclist shit happens and this is the really weird and sad side of life I guess...
All our thoughts to the family and friends of the people involved ...
This sort of thing will always be a massive problem and there is no prefect solution.
I often ride the M7 cyclepath and the Windsor Road cycle path from Baulkham Hills to Windsor.
Sometimes the actual path gets clogged with casual cyclists, children, joggers and pedestians walking six abreast. I have often left the path to ride on the road to avoid this congestion. Imagine a group of very fast roadies who just want to ride without having to slow or take evasive action due to one or more of the aforementioned.
Also, I often ride in the Royal National Park early in the morning and frequently am buzzed by motorcyclists who are travelling at warp speed. Also, the occasional dopey car driver rounding a turn and drifting a little wide will give a fright.
As for the excitement of commuting. Don't get me started.
Our past-time is frought with danger and we all need to carry that risk, otherwise all of us will stay home, hiding behind the couch, covered in a blanket. I don't mind being responsible for my own f%$k-ups. All to often when things go pear shaped for road cyclists, it's a car drivers fault. Therefore, the law needs to address this and drivers who injure or kill a cyclist should receive very severe punishment. The excuse 'I didn't see him' is just not acceptable.
I know no one is perfect. I know we all make mistakes. I get all that. Yet, drivers need to wake up and accept that cyclists are valid road users and as time rolls on cyclists numbers will increase. Severe and harsh punishment with a lot of avertising may cause drivers to look more attentively.
This also goes for me too. I try my very best to be a careful driver.
I think the elite cyclist can start forget how fragile the human body is and loses the perspective of what is more important being alive, or taking on the traffic. Dress bright and remember that in Sydney that the driver coming up behind you generally won't have the same level of respect for cyclists as you do, and may not have even seen you. I'd rather run into a pedestrian than get hit by a car.