The quest to upgrade to a duallie...

Sorry I didn't answer your question really, yes it is possible - whether it's carbon or not I'm not sure in that range but you can definitely get other bikes with similar characteristics to the Rize in that price range. I'd say the Trek EX have great reviews, some of the Specialized frames but watch the forks or Giant of course for value for money and great suspension system with the Maestro.

One other option - get a second hand bike. You could easily find yourself a higher grade frame / spec for that money and if you find in a year you want to upgrade you won't lose anywhere near as much at resale. Think Yeti, Santa Cruz, Orange etc. May have to bring in from overseas but if you're buying through a forum you're highly unlikely to get ripped off and the bike is often well looked after. My friend picked up a Yeti 575 a year ago from the US for about $3000 and shipped it for $400. Still going strong today and it's a great bike. I sold my Santa Cruz Nomad here a few months ago for about $3k. That was a $7k bike new and it was in excellent condition with great components (XTR, X.0, Juicy Brakes, Pike Fork, Mavic SX wheels etc).

With 2010 frames due in a few months, you'll also see discounts on this year models both new and second hand so it's a good time to start looking. I think August / Sept is when the deals really kick in and you might not want to waste that riding time looking of course, but it's worth knowing.

And then re-try the ones you really liked - the other thing is different body types like different geometry which is more true on a duallie than a hard tail, the best thing to do is when you've pick the bikes you like go on-line and write out all the geometry specs and see which on fits what you want to do.

Also it's worth paying a little more to ensure you get the brake and suspension package you want on the bike - putting on new running gear (when you wear old stuff out) is much cheaper than new brake and suspension parts (as I've found out)

Just went through this decision a few weeks back and ended up with a Giant Trance X2 which is around the money you were looking at. I liked it over the all the others and it was on sale which helped! I didn't try a leftie but i just didn't like the look of it - so can't really comment on the ride versus the trance.
I haven't been able to ride the trance x2 as it has rained since i picked it up!
I saw the 07 trek in town yesterday. Has technology improved in 2 years - i would have thought so??

Good luck.

Hey Flubberghusted,
I too rushed in when I bought my first mtb, and made a mistake.... I really should have ridden more AND ridden them on the intended trails. (I bought a Giant NRS for its 'efficient pedalling platform' btw).

The bikes you are mentioning (cannondale and trek) are single pivot designs. These essentially rely on chain tension and platform shocks to counter suspension bob. Many people find this ok, and many are extremely capable bikes, but you will always have some suspension stiffening when climbing and braking. I'll reiterate, many accept this as ok. To me, on our predominantly technical trails active suspension is a benefit.

So.... there are other suspension designs that minimise bob while providing active traction and braking.
Giant maestro, Horst Link, and Dave Weagle's DW link. Santa Cruz/Intense Virtual Pivot sits in the middle, as it still has pedal feedback in the granny gear.

I've ridden horst link on my last two bikes (Turner and Titus), these were 5" and 4" travel bikes and I've been happy with them. I ride a DW link bike now with 5.5" inches of suspension, and can honestly say engineering has come a very long way in recent times. It has zero platform in the rear shock, no pedal kickback, yet has no suspension bob, and is plush and active under power and braking. It is also really efficient, and I use it as my race bike. It is also insanely fun to ride the rest of the time!

So I'm not saying mine is the best, it just suits me for what I want to do. I'm also saying test active suspension, because you could get a nice surprise!

On forks, lefty has a real weight advantage, is stiff as a dual fork bike, but the downside is they only come on Cannondales and they are a hassle to put on the roof unless you have an adapter. there are plenty of 'regular' forks that you will be happy with.
W.

Thanks guys.

The fella that got us into mtb also said that Giant seems to be value for money especially components wise but some shop guys are telling us that Giants frame are absolute rubbish. It makes sense given no lifetime warranty comes with the Giant.

Now at BBF, we took the Giant X2 for a spin "around the car park". It felt very stiff and didnt feel as comfortable as the Lefty. But I suppose I need to take it for a real offroad spin. Pedals are rubbish but I can easily transfer my old platform ones across. But we asked whether there were any run outs on old models etc and the BBF guy said "nah, we sell all our stock like hot cakes" I find that a little hard to believe.

Any stores that do demos on the Giants? BA does it but for $80 (I personally think its ridiculous that they charge for demos).

Rob, I felt the pain. When I was riding the Lefty for just the day, I had motoheads and others having a laugh at bike with comments "so we know which hand is your strong one" and "go the chopstick"!

So we're gonna go to Burwood and check it out there today. Had the worst service from the CBD guys the other day, so there goes a 3 bike sale.

Thanks Heeza, I am open to second hand bikes but me mates are keen for a new one so if it means a group discount, it may be worth it to go retail. Santa Cruz's would so sweet but a little pricey. I saw the Stumpjumpers and they look pretty good but am now concerned of outriding it.
How would one go abouts getting from one O/S other than calling friends I barely speak to going "oh heeey, any chance u live next to a bike store?!"

Giant are following the current trend of making lightweight frames.
I've seen them break, but I've also broken a Turner frame, one of the most respected hand built makes in the USA (replaced under warranty though!). I've also seen rocky mountain and mongooses break. Also know of two Ibis carbon frames that had problems (also replaced under warranty). So what does this mean....

If you are big and heavy, you are going to stress a lightweight frame with lots of 'fluid forming' and fancy curves and bends. Expect to get 2 happy years, then after that it may or may not crack, break or give problems. If you are 'normal' weight, 3-5 years is a pretty common lifespan. Having said that I ride a 9 year old carbon frame on the road! [ fyi: http://nobmob.com/node/9703 ]

The important thing is to get a frame that suits you and your intended riding style. Giant and everyone else make bikes in 4, 5, 6" travel, and this generally equates to their intended usage. I'd have no problem with a Giant, or any other quality brand from a longevity perspective, as long as it's used for its intended purpose and weight loading.

Another quick observation: "It felt very stiff and didn't feel as comfortable as the Lefty"
To compare apples with apples make sure the suspension is set up with the correct sag & rebound for your weight before you ride it. Any quality bike shop will do that for you. If they don't or don't how, go elsewhere because they are demonstrating that they do not understand the most important aspect of bike preparation.

Who ever told you giant frames are crap is full of it themselves.

There is only a few factories where bikes are mass produced and quite a few brands come out of the Giant factory. The difference comes down to design and quality control set by the different companys.

I don't stock Giants I would not knock the quality of their build.

Not many people have life time warranty on their frames now anyway.

When I first started riding I had a Giant and was soon pushing it past the limits of what it was designed for. When it developed a crack at the shock mount I wasn't expecting warranty as I had been DHing on what was an entry level dually. Warranty however was given.

If your shop is bagging out frames they don't sell they are probably feeding you BS elsewhere too

after riding an Avanti hardtail for a few years.

Love it & Cycology up at Tuggerah had some very good prices & was worth the drive from the North side - was tempted to blow my budget & go for the X1 which had a $3700 tag on it!

Giant value is hard to go past if you're on a budget & after doing some research I was pretty confident I would be happy with the Trance X - no disappointment so far (check out Mountain Bike Action's $2500 bike shootout http://www.mbaction.com/ME2/dirmod.asp?sid=&nm=&...).

It's absolutely right that getting the sag right will make a huge difference to the feel of the bike. The components on the Giant are great too - the X2 has full SLX (apart from hubs). Feels silky smooth after the HT.

Where I work, we sell Avanti and Specialized, and it's wrong to bag other brands. I happily have two Giants from prior to my employment there. One is for sale, yet only because it's time to move on. The other I broke the frame on a weld, succesfully received a warranty replacement, and all is well. The truth is that my Giants have been very pleasurable to ride.
When a shop states that a certain model from the previous model year is sold out, then it's the truth. It's June '09 and it won't be long before the '10 stuff arrives. The factories are already building them. There's no need to lie about such things. If a customer asks 'Do you have or can you obtain bike X from last year?' then I check. Really popular stuff will be answered with a no. Less popular stuff a yes. There is no way that a very popular bike like a Trance X2 from 2008 will be available a whole year after they rolled over to '09 production, with the exception of odd sizes perhaps.
It's my job to tell everyone how fantastic Specialized bikes are, and what's more I truly believe it. Yet I also really like many, many other brands also, such as the aforementioned Cannondale, which is quite possibly the nicest riding single pivot bike out there. It's a very different product to the FSR bikes indeed. And the lefty fork is one very clever piece of engineering. The motorcycle world has been trying to rid itself of the telescopic two sided fork, due to it's limitations, for many years and only BMW seem to be succeeding. In the MTB world, only Cannondale continue to R & D this field.
My next bike is to be a Stumpy. I believe in Specialized FSR, I believe in Specialized frame standards and I'm really into other Specialized products. That's not to say that other brands are rubbish. The big brands are all good. And many of the smaller ones too. It's as simple as that.
Getting a real world test ride is next to impossible. There's just too much money tied up in these things for people to just randomly test ride on the basis that they may purchase. I've heard all the excuses about try before you buy etc. Just take the car park ride and make a seat of the pants judgement. I did.
In 2003 I bought a new Trek Liquid based on reviews and a round the block ride. I took the plunge and that bike kept me pretty happy for four years yet it was another two before I actually showed it the door. Back then I bought the bike on a bit of faith because I didn't want to confuse myself too much by riding a whole heap of different models.
Buy the bike that appeals to you most, for what ever reason that may be.
We're selling Stumpy Elites in Red only for $3K all sizes while stocks last...

Call me old fashioned, but....

Whisperer - over to you...love to hear a full structural analysis, including assessment of the torsional forces applicable when fitting a lefty fork to an otherwise perfectly good carbon bike - without reinforcing the headtube.

(please provide all diagrams, including finite element analysis, the impact of the difference in fork axle setback, not only on the length in wheelbase, but also on weight distribution; and potential performance impact on the DW link's virtual pivot system).

__________________________
Happiness is a proper fork

or: Symmetry is the aesthetic of the primates

Ah... a thing of beauty.

Well - aside from the silly chain guide and dual pot brakes - one only needs them for DH work and who want to DH on an Mojo?!

Leftys have been seen them on Yeti's too:

From: http://weightweenies.starbike.com/forum/viewtopi...

Dude after a genius, riding a penny farthing would seem awesome

My mate was on his 3rd warranty frame, and that has been welded at the rear stay twice....he eventually gave up and bought a morewood shova....no he's happy!

See, plenty of support for the Lefty Platform. Love the look of these wheels. Santa - are you listening!

http://www.velonews.com/photo/90414