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Friends Of Warringah Meet To Discuss MTB Single Trail
Manly Daily Wednesday Oct 7,2009
Page 6: Search for middle ground on bike use.
A proposal to allow mountain bike riders to use single trails in national parks will be one of the several topics discussed at the next meeting of the friends of warringah tonight at the North Curl Curl SLSC........
The entire story can be found here http://digitaledition.manlydaily.com.au/
There are some interesting quotes from Richard Michell (spokesperson for Friends Of Warringah) in regards to "middle ground".
The meeting begins at the North Curl Curl SLSC at 7:30pm tonight.
Is anyone going from nobmob?
If someone feels the need to respond if and when the issue of erosion is brought up:
The most likely Question to arrise: but mountain biking on single trail leads to erosion does it not?.
Answer:Yes, you are correct to a degree, given the trail is of poor design and of poor construction, there can be erosion, but the same is true when walking trails are designed poorly.
On the other hand if the mtb single trail has been designed to IMBA sustainable standards(explain) and motor bikes are restrained from using them, erosion is minimal and has been proven by studies scientifically to be on par with walking/hiking.
Question:Ok, why is it that we can see evidence of erosion on certain single trails allready,
Answer: On the northern beaches most erosin on single trails has been cuased largely by MOTORbikes riding up the single trail in the wet.
Mountain bikers however when legally alowed to ride on single trail, take an active approcach to volunteer and keep the trails maintained to a sustainable level.
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Who are "Friends Of Warringah" anyhow? Do they have any control or influence over NPWS? Without knowing anything about it one could hazard a guess they are a lobby group with no more or less influence than any other.
While it's nice to stand up for riders one can also guess the one sided bashing that a rider would get trying to explain things to a large, anti-MTB group. That said - if someone wants to go along and observe it would be interesting to see what's said.
BTW, whenever erosion or anything else is mentioned don't forget that locally riders have never been given the authority or chance to care for any of the trails they ride. Without the opportunity to demonstrate proper sustainable planning and maintenance what are we supposed to do?
just spoken with Richard Michell (he is a director of the company I work for) he is very much in favour of sustainable mountain biking. I have also taken the liberty to mention this site and have forwarded to him the report to the NPWS (the one Rob and others put together earlier in the year).
He is also of the belief that Manly Dam should be managed seperately to Council.
Toddy
Agree 100% Rob,
Any commenting must be calm and collected, and seeing that the Leader is in support im sure he would give us a fair go.
Couldnt find much info on "Friends of Warringah" myself, but it is certainly in our best interest to be on thier side.
Richard seems like a reasonable bloke, do they have a website or newsletter?
How many members do they have?
keep us informed,cheers
For raising this. I would like to attend but disappointed this meeting has flown under my radar and is a bit too short notice to myself.
exactly to these MOTORbikes cause erosion on please? Since they aren't allowed in the national parks especially around here ... and most national parks have fire trail...
I agree we need to be careful with blanket statements, and it is good that you are challenging that one.
But now it's your turn.
Since when did "not allowed" stop riders of unregistered motorised trail thrashers doing anything they danged well pleased? And how do we know the "mountain bikes on singletrack = erosion" assumption that we need to refute was founded on national park trails?
Red Hill is an easy example I can think of. Earlier this year some mates were encouraging me to go there with my youngster ... "we used to ride there with our (motored) trail bikes all the time - you'll really enjoy it!" They all sold their trail bikes earlier this year, but there will be others.
When my cousin and I ride in Khappinghat, we have to be really careful to avoid being seen by the trail bikers when entering and leaving the singletrack network we've found, because we've seen instances where the motorbike riders have completely trashed trails, rendering some technical climbs unrideable.
there, especially since 'not allowed' but still 'going there' doesn't just apply to motorbikes but also to mtb riders - look at Bantry Bay for a local example... and mtb is a far more popular sport.
You just had to pick my 'favourite' Red Hill didn't you! However, that one is not National Park and as half is Crown Land and half Church Land it's a bit of a grey area at the moment and registered bikes are allowed up there - that is not to say that they are always responsible riders who consider the weather who are riding.
With regards to the 'single track' issue which I was referring to earlier, since our most regular complaint over here is the lack of single track available I was just curious as to where it was...
,
I also, would like to point out that at Oxford Falls the council have had to place numerous boulders along the side of the road to stop the 4Wds from 'breaking in', however, no one ever says anything here about them!
For starters Motor bikers ride across the road from red hill to Garigal.
1. All red hill single trail, the guys that look after certain dh trails there have a very hard time fixing up the single trail after motorbikes ride up them,especially in the wet.
2. At Garigal just about every trail listed on Nobmob near oxford falls has been severely effected by motos except the main Freeride area (because people are always there)
Myself and many others have regularly witnessed them riding the single trail mostly at red hill but in the past we have regularly seen them when riding the Garigal NP single trail, and the foot deep effects left on the trail.
As i have said before i don’t have much against trail motorbikes, i have friends that ride. But i do have a massive problem with MOTORbikers when they rip up single trail and give mountain bikers a bad name RE: erosion.
The end effect of the above is Garigal single trail got closed down, largely due to motorbikes digging foot deep trenches, some walkers thinking it was mtbers and complaining about massive erosion over a period of years, then NPWS nejerking and blanket closing everything.
If anyone has any doubts about the above effects of Motorbikes on the local single trail take a really good walk around Red Hill, or Garigal (inside and outside boundary).
Unfortunately the motor bikers that are doing the above are giving the careful ones a bad name.
Did anyone go?
i would have gone for sure to both meetings last night if only i could have cloned myself:)
nah..that timeslot was allready taken for me,sorry,anybody else....
Friends of Warringah Inc
Phone: 0414 990 551
Mail to: PO Box 2021, Dee Why NSW 2099
Service Description: This umbrella group for resident organisation conducts bi-monthly public forums on issues of concern to Warringah. It acts as a voice to the Council concerning development and social issues.
I have just spoken to Richard with regard to the outcome of the meeting. The mountain bike issue was only one of six that was discussed, however it was the most "passionate".
Main concerns were from those completely opposed to mountain biking in National Parkes regarding flora and fauna damage. Examples were given and shown how when one track starts and becomes water soaked, another track starts on higher ground and so on..... I did say this was due to the track not being managed and or properly designed and thus this type of incident occurs. I also gave examples about The Royal and The Blue Mountains (Richard has a holiday home in The Mountains) how sustainable mountain biking can be acheived.
Another concern was the "commercial" aspect to mountain biking. It was suggested that private land owners welcome mountain biking as it "de-values" the land, thus making it cheaper to own (rates etc...)
Richard mentioned Mike Baird attended and that the above point was something he had not considered and has accepted invitations to visit local area where this is happenning.
The final outcome was to undertake a feasability study with a possible trial.
Toddy
Do they mean new tracks are built higher up if a trail becomes water soaked as it has not been put in the correct spot or preventative measures have not been taken in the first place?.
If so, i think i know what they are talking about in Garigal, And trust me, its not just bikers that use the high ground(its walkers too) theres only one spot that they could be talking about. Clue, dh into very muddy creekbed, simple fix, a meter wide north shore style boardwalk(maybe 50cm of the ground), just like the ones national parks put in for walkers when the walking trails must pass through muddy flats and mangrove areas.
To me it sounds like that when it rains, people ride around the puddles and thus widening the trail into surrounding ‘wilderness’.
It’s happened at the Dam in a few places.
Thats what came to mind first but i thought, no, they could not be that hypocritical.
Take a walk on any informal walking trail or badly designed formal walking trail that has a wide and long puddle in it after rain, you will see exactly the same thing happen. Do they really want us to believe that a walker will walk straight through a puddle when there is higher ground to walk around and thus inadvertently create a new trail higher up?
In fact i would say if there was a side by side study done more walkers would walk around creating a new trail than bikers, simply due to the fact bikers do not mind a bit of water on the wheels, where walkers most definitely hate the water in the hiking boots feel.
p.s Dont forget the Dam is Multi Use. Walkers/Bikers both adding to the trail outcome.
All these friends of warringah or any other group need to do is actually confront mountain bikers with their concerns, there is always a solution, maybe they don't want one?
That's exactly right. Walkers are far more likely to walk around puddles, when a mountain bike rider can simply ride right though or even jump it if its short enough.
Unfortunately I think they think it's the reverse!