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I see why cyclist get a bad name sometimes
It seems at the moment that the age old 'battle' between cyclists and other road users is getting more mainstream media attention, with the 7pm Project rant, the comments by Carl Scully and numerous other mainstream press articles recently. I think part of this is that the media loves a 'buzzword' and right now they see this as an issue that can be divisive (just check the responses to some of the mainstream online articles to see).
Where is this going you may ask. Well, with all of this in mind I'm sure most of you like me are aware that we can do our small part by thinking about our actions when we are out there on our bikes, be it off road or on road.
So, if you were the twat riding over the Anzac bridge yesterday morning about 10.00am in the OUTSIDE lane of the main road, I think you set cyclist / car driver relations back a few years.
I was actually traveling in the opposite direction and had to do a double take. Cars, trucks and buses were coming up over the crest of the bridge at 70 to 80 kph to find a lycra clad roadie doing maybe 10 / 15kph and having to break, swerve etc. This was just selfish riding in my mind, when there is a perfectly good cycle lane 10m to his right.
Next time a cyclist gets hit by a car, I wonder how many drivers who saw this yesterday will think they deserved it, regardless of whose fault it was?
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I totally agree with you.
Over the last few years I have enjoyed cycling, motorsports and offroading (4x4). Each of these communities seem to struggle with public acceptance of their activity because a small number of people create a negative example for the rest of the community.
Clubs will denouce the behaviour, clubs will push the ethical behaviour of their members until they are blue in their collective faces... and all it takes is one wanker being caught on film or as you described pissing off alot of motorists to bring it down.
I know we had alot of success with the local police (When I was on the comittee of a local sports car club) just by consitantly showing we where well behaved. They local police even recorded on our vehicle records that we are part of a club and to leave us alone when driving in groups. Perhaps the clubs need to bind togeher with a very public "cycling code" or marketing campaign.
What would the cycling version of "ban low performance drivers, not high performance cars" campaign be?
As cyclist he was entitled to ride on the road, and even if he has a bike lane near by he would have to share it with walkers who do not reach 10km/h. The problem is that as biker you are 3rd class road user: 1st cars, 2nd pedestrians and then biker sharing it with pets!!!
Anyway, just my view.
The road is there to share. if you are slow, you go in the left lane. Sitting in the right hand lane when not overtaking is worth a fine as a car driver. So the bike rider was definitely in the wrong and if he had been caught would hopefully have been fined.
I agree he has a right to use the road. I ride across the Anzac Bridge every day to work, but I'm not selfish enough to think that I have the right to use the road holding up traffic on a major arterial road when a perfectly good cycleway exists next to it. Also, it's bloody dangerous to him as well.
Take a normal 1 or 2 lane road anywhere in Sydney and I would agree with you, but freeways and major (by which I mean Harbour Bridge, Cross City tunnel etc) I just don't we should really use. Imagine if he was riding over the Harbour Bridge too. If it's a major road but has a bus lane great, but otherwise avoid it.
My point here is more about the speed than the fact he was a cyclist, but other road users will not see that and just look at the cyclist being the problem. If I was driving over the Anzac bridge or down a freeway and came across a car driver doing 10kph, in the fast lane, I'd be inclined to mutter a few curse words to myself as well. This is what I mean - when drivers get home after an encouter with a cyclist in this situation, they'll say how stupid they were, shouldn't be on the road at all, etc etc and this is how is starts.
Like you, this is just my opinion of course.
Yeah, there's a time and place for riding in the right lane...and that aint it. You can be fined for driving in the right hand lane (anyone been done for this??!), so why not riding? ANZAC Bridge is one of those places where I'd gladly use the bike path, especially during peak hour.
I agree, they wouldnt be moaning as loudly if it was a broken down truck crawling along at 10km/h.
I did spot a cyclist at 5.30am on the harbour bridge riding to an event..
Lorrie
I've seen a roadie in the Harbour Tunnel
4 interesting points in this debate are:
1. People don't write in to the paper when they see motorists doing the wrong thing - it is typically only when cyclists do the wrong thing.
2. Not to excuse the numbskull who assaulted the bus driver - he was clearly in the wrong - but what most non-cyclists don't realise is that if your life has ever been threatened by a car/truck/bus, it can invoke a "flight or flight" response.
3. My hypothesis is that some motorists do not like cyclists because getting behind the wheel of a car can cause one to become very competitive, and when cyclists cruise pasts cars in the traffic, this causes great anger to the competitive motorist.
4. The best people to listed to in this debate are those who have driven a car AND ridden a bike on the road - they have the best perspective.
Can you imagine how big the paper would be if people did write in to complain everytime someone driving a car/bus/truck has a brainfart.
your probably right about point 3. I know a few people that get really worked up when they overtake a cyclist on the road, only to have him sail past them to go to the front of the queue at the next red light. It is with in the law, but people dont like it.
Saw a funny thing this morning as I rode to work. A motorist honked a cyclist (admittedly going extreeeemely slow, but still no excuse) whist changing lanes into the bus lane. The cyclist was over to the left of the bus lane, in fact I'd even say a little too far, almost in the gutter. The motorist changed lanes from the middle lane into the buslane right where this cyclist was. The thing I found amusing and frustrating at the same time was that the cyclist/motorist were about 400m from the corner at which this motorist was to eventually turn down.
To me it was a blatent effort to annoy the cyclist. It appeared that he went into the buslane early to just give this cyclist a hitout.
Some motorists just don't get it....
"I know a few people that get really worked up when they overtake a cyclist on the road, only to have him sail past them to go to the front of the queue at the next red light. It is with in the law, but people dont like it."
No, it isn't within the law. It's illegal for motorcycles and scooters to do as well.
Also, it's just plain rude. If someone in a car cut in front of you when you're stopped at an intersection ( also in a car), and then took off in front of you a 5 kms an hour, you'd be pretty ticked off.
I ride a scooter to work daily and ride by the same rules as a car. Lane splitting as it's known, where you drive between cars or weave in and out of lanes is illegal and if a policeman sees you do it you're likely to get fined and points.
Same rules should apply for bikes. If we want to be taken seriously on the road, the same rules have to apply.
I know that doesn't stop the idiots who tell you to ride in the gutter when you're taking up a lane legitimately on a bicycle, but at least you know you're in the right.
You sure about that? I went into a police station when I first arrived in NSW and asked about it and the copper told me it was neither legal nor illegal. Reading between the lines he was telling me everyone does it (he was a biker too).
I have been riding a motorbike to work several days as week since I have been in NSW (about 5 years) and always filter through stationary traffic. I've never been told off, and I have passed many police cars doing so. Not only that but I've never had any agro from cars doing so either.
EDIT: more info here: http://www.bikeraware.com/rr_lane_splitting.htm
I don't think that there is anything specific in the NSW Road Rules 2008 against lane-splitting, but if a copper was to be pedantic they could get you with "Not driving within a single marked lane or line of traffic"
146 Driving within a single marked lane or line of traffic
(1) A driver on a multi-lane road must drive so the driver’s vehicle is completely in a marked lane, unless the driver is:
a) entering a part of the road of one kind from a part of the road of another kind (for example, moving to or from a service road or a shoulder of the road), or
(b) entering or leaving the road, or
(c) moving from one marked lane to another marked lane, or
(d) avoiding an obstruction, or
(e) obeying a traffic control device applying to the marked lane, or
(f) permitted to drive in more than one marked lane under another provision of these Rules or under another law of this jurisdiction.
But you could always argue against this using 141(c)
141 No overtaking etc to the left of a vehicle
(1) A driver (except the rider of a bicycle) must not overtake a vehicle to the left of the vehicle unless:
(a) the driver is driving on a multi-lane road and the vehicle can be safely overtaken in a marked lane to the left of the vehicle, or
(b) the vehicle is turning right, or making a U-turn from the centre of the road, and is giving a right change of direction signal and it is safe to overtake to the left of the vehicle, or
(c) the vehicle is stationary and it is safe to overtake to the left of the vehicle.
So as long as you're not doing it dangerously, you'd be ok.
Per the above rule 141(1), bicycles are allowed to overtake on the left. When you're lane splitting, you're passing either on the right or on the left of someone, both of which are expressly permitted for bicycles - but not for motorbikes. Motorbikes do not get the overtake-on-left exemption unless the traffic is completely stationary - 141(1)c.
When your tyres are only 23mm wide I don't think you'd have too much trouble creating enough doubt to get off any charge of not being completely in a lane.
reminds me of a article I read the other day....
Maybe we need Boris Johnson (Mayor of London) to come over here and run some workshops.
http://www.zigzig.net/2009/11/13/bike-blog-polic...
I dont ride a great deal (maybe once a week) and just enjoy places like Terry Hills and Manly Dam and then some road riding on my MTB but have to say that everytime I ride on a road ie: Military Road, I see at least a few riders that get to set of lights that are red where I am waiting for them to change and just ride straight through - surely this also gives bike riders a bad name! The same has to be said for riding some tracks as I always stop and pull to the side if I see a horse rider coming towards me and 9/10 times they say "thanks, I wish the other 2 *%&^** that just passed us did the same as they just flew past and scared the horses".
you shouldn't get booked ... the RTA thinks so too on its page encouragingly titled "Bicycle laws and penalties" (http://www.rta.nsw.gov.au/roadsafety/bicycles/cy...):
"Cyclists also have some special rights, which include: ... Travelling to the front of a line of traffic on the left hand side of the stopped vehicles"
Agree that a bit of courtesy goes a long way, though.
http://nobmob.com/node/5461#comment-17505 Back from June last year
Surely it should be a question of what is the morally correct thing to do, not just what the letter of the law entitles you to
... it's always the same old arguments and moans.
Car driver: Hey - you are a bike, you cannot take up a full lane. I expect you to ride in the gutter so I can squeeze by when there is oncoming traffic.
Bike rider: So I'm not allowed to use a full lane? So you want me to ride in the gutter? So you can't complain if I do that at the lights to get to the front of the queue.
Car driver: No, you are not allowed to squeeze by, you must stay in the lane, after all, you are a vehicle.
Bike rider: So I'm allowed to ride in the middle of the lane, away from parked cars and the gutter?
Car driver: No, you have to stay squashed over to the left so I can overtake you even when there is oncoming traffic.
Bike Rider: So I'm not allowed to use a full lane? So you want me to ride in the gutter? So you can't complain if I do that at the lights to get to the front of the queue.
Car driver: No, you are not allowed to squeeze by, you must stay in the lane, after all, you are a vehicle.
Bike rider: So I'm allowed to ride in the middle of the lane, away from parked cars and the gutter?
Car driver: No, you have to stay squashed over to the left so I can overtake you even when there is oncoming traffic.
Bike Rider: So I'm not allowed to use a full lane? So you want me to ride in the gutter? So you can't complain if I do that at the lights to get to the front of the queue.
Car driver: No, you are not allowed to squeeze by, you must stay in the lane, after all, you are a vehicle.
Bike rider: So I'm allowed to ride in the middle of the lane, away from parked cars and the gutter?
Car driver: No, you have to stay squashed over to the left so I can overtake you even when there is oncoming traffic.
Bike Rider: So I'm not allowed to use a full lane? So you want me to ride in the gutter? So you can't complain if I do that at the lights to get to the front of the queue.
Car driver: No, you are not allowed to squeeze by, you must stay in the lane, after all, you are a vehicle.
Bike rider: So I'm allowed to ride in the middle of the lane, away from parked cars and the gutter?
Car driver: No, you have to stay squashed over to the left so I can overtake you even when there is oncoming traffic.
Bike Rider: So I'm not allowed to use a full lane? So you want me to ride in the gutter? So you can't complain if I do that at the lights to get to the front of the queue.
Car driver: No, you are not allowed to squeeze by, you must stay in the lane, after all, you are a vehicle.
Bike rider: So I'm allowed to ride in the middle of the lane, away from parked cars and the gutter?
Car driver: No, you have to stay squashed over to the left so I can overtake you even when there is oncoming traffic.
Bike Rider: So I'm not allowed to use a full lane? So you want me to ride in the gutter? So you can't complain if I do that at the lights to get to the front of the queue.
Car driver: No, you are not allowed to squeeze by, you must stay in the lane, after all, you are a vehicle.
Bike rider: So I'm allowed to ride in the middle of the lane, away from parked cars and the gutter?
Car driver: No, you have to stay squashed over to the left so I can overtake you even when there is oncoming traffic.
... etc ...
Too funny Rob
The law does let a cyclist pass on the left, I would argue that is the left hand side of the left lane only in a multi lane road but that isn't written anywhere.
If only all road users could show each other the respect we all deserve, but I don't think that utopia exists.
Just buy a kiddies bike and ride on the footpath
I thought all road bike riders were colour blind - after all why do they all ride through red traffic lights?!?
I think this story at Bike Radar - Twitter inspires "I Pay Road Tax" cycling jersey - could be applied here.
As in the UK there is no such thing as an Australian "road tax" because road budgets come from general revenue - we all pay our taxes (and GST) so we all pay "road tax".
Here's the site itself I Pay Road Tax . Com which the story says
got to love the old "two wrongs make a right" argument, that's bound to convince everyone
and I think it was just as likely a "pot calling the kettle black" argument
I prefer the argument that bikes go too slow and they are always in the drivers way which makes drivers angry, but then at traffic lights when they continue through they get out of the way - and that makes drivers angry!!!
Just returned last Sunday from holidays and while visiting New York I was amazed how many people ride the streets with no helmet and equally amazed that I did not see one rider at night with any form of lights (must not be a law!) This was more obvious when my girlfriend and I crossed at night at a set of lights on a green walk sign and in a flash were both laying on the ground - a guy on a road bike with no lights at all, wearing ALL black with a black helmet ran the red light and cleaned us up, my girlfriend copped a black eye and a huge cork on the leg - ouch!