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Wet weather: common sense...please!!
Observation during the last two weeks of heavy rain at Many Dam....
After torrential rain during the evening and morning and a couple of days of solid rain last week it amazes me how people are STILL riding the dam. After all the hard work that is being done by a large number of people to get broader access to trails across the state guys are still being stupid. Guys are still trying to ride through 40cm deep water for 10m's. It is this kind of behavior that people outside the sport look at....and we wonder why people are critical, it is because they have something to be critical about....
Common sense needs to be used if we want access to these tracks in the future, not difficult, go for a road ride on your mountain bike.....
We can work as hard as we want to get access but as long as we have people who are not using common sense we may as well give up now......
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I completely agree with you mate and probably like many other NobMober's I haven't been around the Dam since end of December for these reasons of respect to our previlage of being allowed to use the trails. Problem is, how many people know about this active website? Common sense aside, people just don't think about the damage they may cause the dam but rather how muddy they get when riding it. When I ride it in the dry I'm amazed how many novice groups of riders are on the trail many of which have no idea where to go.
The question is how do we educate these people and get our message across? It's a tough one
Yep, it's annoying to put it mildly.
I've seen people ride up to "Trail Closed" signs at the Dam, read them, and keep going
... until I guilt-tripped them into turning around and going to Terrey Hills. Half the time people ask "where's that?" when I mention the Terrey Hills option. So there needs to be much wider publicity of buth the Mountain Biker's Code of Conduct and the various trail options in the area.
There also needs to be enforcement, unfortunately. Education alone is not enough. Human nature: as we see with speeding and drink driving, unless there are unpleasant personal consequences like penalties, people will still be very selfish if they think they can get away with it.
we are having the same problem up here at Glenrock
I totaly agree with Hawkeye, but how do you penalise those doing the wrong thing. Unless rangers are stationed aroung the trails whenever they are closed.
The other annoying thing is the majority of those who know and love our local trails respect that we need to look after them, it is the small minority that do not have the basic common sense to look after what we have. The 80/20 rule where 20 percent of those ruin it for the vast majority.
Unfortunately there is not alot you can do or say when Warringah Council announced on their FB page that although wet, Manly Dam MTB track was open over the Australia Day weekend...
There are a lot of people who ride the Dam who are not all that "into" mtb'ing as those that frequent his site. As such, they see a lack of closed signs and some even check the council website, and see that it is open. Riding an mtb is dirty business so the fact that the track is wet and their bike gets dirty is neither here nor there to them. They assume that the track is maintained (as it should be and when it is, rain should not be a big issue) and therefore ride-able when wet. If you roll up to Allambie and start there, then it's usually pretty dry until half way around by which time it's too late,
Just as many tourists have a complete lack of understanding of surf conditions, many riders have a lack of understanding of trail care. Combine this with very little information about where else they can ride and why it's ok to ride there after rain and it leaves many people in the dark. There is no hard and fast rule about how wet is too wet so what are most people to do?
Of course, when the signs are up and/or it is closed on the council website there is no excuse and these are the people that should hang their heads in shame. I also appreciate that there are those that know better but ride anyway.
In the absence of a formal closure on the weekend, and without the POM being finalised and the appropriate Code signage out there, you're right: benefit of the doubt must be given.
It seems to me now they're going too far the other way to keep the trails open on high-usage weekends when it's marginal. Now if the trails were being maintained that would be less of an issue, but that's not being done and some parts of the track are now in very poor condition.
As I understand it, a Sydney-based trail construction group staffed by mountain bikers either has or will be very soon conducting an audit of Manly Dam and providing feedback to Council. Hoping to have some news on that shortly.
Which the the specific places that are actually being damaged beyond repair? It seems apart from the spots that you have water running over rock - which should be fine to ride on - there's limited spots where unsustainable damage is being wrought. If the council are comfortable about leaving it open then I would assume that they are OK with throwing a pile of metal in the spots that show up as needed - which is basic trail maintenance. There are no days of the year that they close Rotorua Redwoods - they had their wettest December in 70 years and there were lakes where there used to be puddles - so some trails that are ridden get damaged and once it dries out they fix the water problem. If this doesn't happen at Manly then that seems to be more a maintenance problem rather than a trail problem? I guess the level of traffic is very high too - but that's all about promoting the sport with relatively few places close by to go to. Sometimes I think we get too sensitive about the wet tracks.
It amazes me that with all the work and resources put in the Dam the trail is still not wet weather proofed. It seems council is happy that the work gone in so far has gone a long way to making it so.
Our poor cousins in wales would never ride if not in the wet on trails designed and armoured to suit.... Just saying is all
...the Manly Dam trail is built around blocks of sandstone rock which does not drain at all well. If the water could somehow be absorbed by dirt and plants, all well and good. But unfortunately the northern beaches trails (Manly Dam being the best example) are limited by the drainage of the terrain. Sad, but true. The bad news is that the parts exposed to dirt are being eroded or destroyed by idiot riders who carve it up in the rain. The good news is the parts of the trail using exposed sandstone rock is very well protected against erosion (well, hardly any erosion in fact). You take the good with the bad.
haven't ridden the whole loop for four months due to injury, so going from memory:
1: The loop behind the down houses at Southern Cross Drive. One of the puddles gets so deep and chopped out it's worth fliming for funniest home videos
2: Landing zone at bottom of 19th Hole has a history of being a major trap for newbies, although some unofficial work has been done in recent months to stop front wheels digging in and flipping riders. Dunno if the work's survived the most recent wet spell.
3: landing zone off log drops running into 19th Hole getting quite rough and chopped out. have to ride fast and huck over the worst of it- going slow risks an endo
4: Landing zones at bottom of tech descents on golf course single track getting chopped out in wet weather
5: Section from bottom of Hydro Lab rock step-downs running down to concrete path is very badly eroded and in poor condition with lots of detritus beng swept down and into the waterway.
6: singletrack into kids' playground turns into a deep muddy rut in wet weather. Again, soil movement from the trail into creeks.
7: trail widening at various locations including kids' playground alternate line, left turn onto start of straight run coming into 19th Hole, and wherever puddles form on the singletrack, including Golf Course section
In the case of the kids playground alternate line I think it's an improvement, but it's not something that I reckon is wise to encourage generally
While we expect some wear, the problem is the maintenance is not keeping up with it. What maintenance has been done most recently is based on three year out-of-date reports, and the execution hasn't been great (eg grade reversal coming into 19th Hole quite inadequate).
We are in liaison with Council and expect this situation to change, but it - as expected - is taking much longer than expected.
So now I am confused, why has there been an update on the 29 Jan to say that the Dam is good to ride and status is amber?
The Dam definately is amber. Amber meaning some issues, it is wet, but rideable, be prepared to risk wear and tear on your drive train, and you'll have to clean your bike.
I rode it on Sunday arvo and can think of maybe 3 sections that were absolute bog holes, but two of these were like a meter long each (apart from the fire trail behind Manly Vale Public School at the start, but hey that's a fire trail...).
Sure there was a lot of standing water in spots, but between puddles much of the track was bone dry. Some sections that I know get bogged out and was expecting to be very bad were surprisingly dry and hardpack. Definately rideable. Definately not closed/red (but definately not green either for that matter).