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You are hereForums / By Discipline / Mountain (off road) / By Location / Australia / NSW / Northern Beaches / Manly Dam, How is it?
it's all right a lot of puddles but to me that makes it even more fun
You do realise that this kind of attitude is going to get everyone locked out of the Dam?
Please do not ride here (or any other single track) if there is any standing water.
BTW - I hear the rooty climb up to the playing fields (past the tennis courts near the golf club entrance) is now smooth and white. Is that correct?
Went down for a look late today. Some sections ok but there are significant areas that are still quite wet mostly due ground seepage from the higher terrain (it will take weeks of no rain for it to completely dry out). The rooty climb was closed off due works (from school up to golf club entrance) so I rode up the road. Beside the school is all reworked and smooth.
Some more works where the single starts down to the 19th hole and I reckon this area will cop a hammering over the weekend with lots of riders.
The worst part (asthetically) is just past the bowling greens where the grass is turning to black mud. This area suffers after any rain and no doubt some work on this area would make it much more durable (probably on the council list).
There has been a lot of trail maintenance that will help sustain the level of riding the dam takes and whilst to some it reduces the "challenge" of the dam, there is no doubt it improves the sustainability of the trail and quickens recovery after rain.
Personally, I won't ride it again for a few more days, but I don't make the rules - you decide!
Perhaps I was being too subtle.
I spoke to a senior member of NPWS staff this week (think men in suits rather than rangers) who brought up the Dam. He said that NPWS are concerned that if they build bike trails that riders will not respect it. They said they've seen what happens at the Dam when it's officially closed and have no reason to believe riders would treat any trail they build any differently.
While I told him most riders do respect closures and are even smart enough to not ride based on their own judgement if the rangers have not thought to official close the Dam, you will always find a small minority with no respect.
One cannot expect 100% compliance but that is no excuse. If you see someone riding when they shouldn't perhaps have a chat about what damage they are doing not only to the trail, but also to the perception of riders in general and the chances of getting some more official access.
I think part of the problem at Manly is that riders drive there from all over Sydney, and having gone that far they are pretty keen to ride.
Maybe the council needs to have a website which has the open/closed status of the track, so that the people who drive there can check before they leave home and make other plans when it's closed?
Just been to the dam and it's a mess. A lot of clay has been churned up by people riding in the rain - not good. Very slippery and your bike will not thank you (mine hasn't).
What's more, I found the occasional rock that had been put down to try and fill the gaps. One in particular nearly had me off the bike. Why do people do this when they are actually making it more dangerous for riders?
I shouldn't have gone out. I won't be going out for at least another week.
Not happy. Rant over.
I am more than happy to have rangers or other officials that control trails (not just Manly) have access here and create some traffic light type page with conditions. Something akin to the lift status at ski fields. We could easily have users mailed about the status as they are now, but this could be a one stop shop for both mailing and online signage.
Physically, I reckon there should also be at least 2 large boards at the Dam (just past the school and by Wakehurst Parkway?) that show the status and explain the impact of ignoring closures has, plus several smaller signs elsewhere on the course.
I think the traffic light idea is great. Locate it on the front page and make is easy for NP to update, perhaps via email. In the meantime it might be possible to set it up anyway, triggered by the email notifications we get from the Rangers, sort of an "Official Track Status"?
I also think the signs arond the parking areas are important too. Can't we get approval from the rangers to build a couple of signs outselves and get them to help us install them? Surely a couple of wooden painted signs, with the approval of the rangers wouldn't be that expensive and would help show we are keen to prevent water damage. Have the OPEN/CLOSED flap locked and give the rangers the key. There are enough tradies and artists on this site to do a decent job of it.
What people do at Manly has an impact on getting trails approved in other locations. Rangers should fine people if it's signed as closed due to wet weather. That way the people who don't give a shit about the impact of their actions on the rest of us can make a contribution back to society instead of just taking.
"That way the people who don't give a shit about the impact of their actions on the rest of us can make a contribution back to society instead of just taking."
While there probably are some who truly "don't give a shit", I think many casual riders simply aren't aware that riding wet trails causes problems.
The signs should include a bit an explanatory stuff to educate ppl too. But they definitely need a status website, and the address should be in the signs, because those guys that have driven across town to ride it are always going to be hard to dissuade once they have turned up especially if there's 3 or 4 of them in the car.
Better that there's a clear website for them to check whether the track is open before they even get in the car. That way they can make a "plan b".
Hi, I'm a lurker. Not sure if I've ever formally introduced myself, and I'm definitely in the category of a casual rider. What confuses me is the disparity between "the message" from a lot of obviously experienced people on here, and the rangers. For example it's only chance that I logged on tonight (had/have planned a dam ride tomorrow) - it's been a week since any significant rain (got a little damp at the oaks last sunday), and 2 weeks since the damn was officially "opened". I would have thought a week of drying out time would have been plenty, but it seems that is not the case. However for someone like myself, it's confusing. Obviously a lot of people on here are incredibly experienced and long term riders, who know their craft and the impact it can have on the trails you enjoy. However on the other hand, you have the rangers, who are tasked with keeping the trail usable, safe, sustainable, etc etc. They (or whomever employs them) obviously have a vested interest in this, so surely they'd be over-cautious in closing the trail, if anything. A traffic light system would be a great idea, because right now for someone like me, it's very much a case of mixed messages.
Cheers
Peter
I am visiting from the U.S. and I am waiting for a good time to ride the trail. I am fairly experienced and know the damage riding in wet conditions can cause. When I arrived here I found that I really had to search to find somewhere that had updates on trail conditions. A casual rider would not have gone through the effort that I have to find the info. You guys could definitely benefit from a better website with easily accesible trail conditions and better signage on the trail. I think CAMBr (Chicago, IL mountain bikers who maintain all of their own trails) has a good website with frequently updated trail condtions in traffic light form:
http://cambr.org/SMF/index.php?action=home
Based on my experience though, people will ride on wet trails no matter what. My closest trail is owned by the city but is maintained completely by the local mountain biking assocation with a contract, we volunteer almost weekly to do trailwork. There is decent signage explaining the problems with riding on muddy trails and even a gate that the trail manager closes when the conditions are too wet. However, we find that people will still jump over the gate when it is closed and ride the trail.
@Azndude51 - yeah, that block on the CAMBr site looks just like what we need.
I have often thought that we should have a one liner submission form where riders can enter their take on the current trail conditions. Thing is these would become out of date very quickly and I doubt the use it would get.
For something more official I'll have a word with the Manly rangers and see what they think of the idea.
At minimum, someone should make a forum topic here that is stickied to the top solely for posting trail conditions at certain trails so that at least forum members can see. That seems to work decently where I'm from, someone posts at least once every 1 or 2 days.
No worries. The site is getting a pretty major upgrade at the mo (I'm working on it) but after that, this will come for sure.
@Azndude51: I like the ads in the sidebar - mud eats drive trains, etc, and the guy in helmet and bike shoes choosing a bowling ball.
Rob, +1 for the traffic lights.
I think the traffic light system would be a perfect addition to the site. With some clever advertising/awareness we can spread the word throughout other forums and get everyone familiar with the system. So that riders from afar don't have to waste thier time driving all that way only to realise that the dam is closed and ride it anyway.
POssibly getting a forum section on Rotorburn and any other major MTB forum. Even go as far as getting bike shops that have websites to have a small section included on thier front page with the trafiic light setup going. It can only help sustain thier businesses as the longer MTB is allowed in NP's etc the more stock they'll sell. Less tracks=less riding=less wear=less purchases. So even if we get the local Northern beaches shops online first then slowly work our way outward.
I also think that as Rob has said and I've said in other threads, more signage is needed. Signage with key information on it and even impliment the traffic light system on the signs as has also been suggested. I think that's a terrific idea! The signs need to be kept short and sweet, informative, but without going into massive details. Just a few highlighted points. No-one wants to spend 10-15mins reading why they shouldn't ride. But a website address that links to the detailed information is the key for the uninformed to be informed.
Educating the general public and NP advocates and educating riders of trail managment is the absolute key to keeping this great sport alive and legal in Sydney.